A funny thing happened on the way to funeral detail

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I'm the primary NCO for funeral detail for one of 3 teams on my unit in the month of March. That means that if there is a funeral for a soldier to be performed in March, there is a one-in-three chance that I will be the one who hands the folded flag to the next of kin.

I haven't done one of these details since I was with the 93rd Evac Hospital out of Ft Leonard Wood 15 years ago. Back then I was on a 9 man team - they only use those now for special occasions. Maybe a sign that there are just less troops to go around - I don't know.

Anyway, I was talking to my backup NCO about the script of the funeral ceremony, and I found out something that really took me aback.

The local command has decided that the script had to change. It originally read (as the flag is handed to the next-of-kin), "Ma'am/Sir, On behalf of the President of the United States and a grateful nation..."

It seems that because of some very negatively emotional reactions from some family members to the words "President of the US", the script now reads "On behalf of a grateful nation...".

I swear on my life I'm not making this up.

I'm still shaking my head, and this conversation where I found this out happened yesterday.

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It has been thirty years since I had that duty snood, but at that time it was to the best of my recollection "on behalf of a grateful nation..."

My question would be when did "The President of the United States" get inserted?

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I can see how this happened.

Don't know quite what to say, as I see gratefulness being from the nation primarily.

I had a lab across the street from the VA Cemetery in WLA that was very busy in the years of that lab. I could hear Taps through the windows as I worked. And my father was buried there in 1968. I really don't remember taps with it or flag handing over, though I have the flag. Now that I think about it, I may remember. Maybe I was unconscious. (My mother was starting into alzheimer's so I was the main sentient one, however that worked.) And we'd been through a rosary with Fr. Patrick Peyton* saying it, and a funeral mass..

*rosary crusade

They're both buried there now.
I'm one of those people who doesn't put flowers. I've been many miles away for a long time. Still care, though.

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More confusion. I was in the Air Force, but thirty years ago it may have been different.

Quote:

Each service uses slightly different wording for the presentation:

Army: This flag is presented on behalf of a grateful nation and the United States Army as a token of appreciation for your loved one's honorable and faithful service.

Navy: On behalf of the President of the United States and the Chief of Naval Operations, please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one's service to this Country and a grateful Navy.

Marine Corp: On behalf of the President of the United States, the Commandant of the Marine Corps, and a grateful nation, please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one's service to Country and Corps.

Air Force: On behalf of the President of the United States, the Department of the Air Force, and a grateful nation, we offer this flag for the faithful and dedicated service of (service member's rank and name).

Coast Guard: On behalf of the President of the United States, the Commandant of the Coast Guard, and a grateful nation, please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one's service to Country and the Coast Guard.

If the next of kin has expressed a religious preference or belief, add "God bless you and this family, and God bless the United States of America."
http://www.trea.org/funeral/honoring.html

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The ceremony was downgraded in 2000, because the die-off of ww2 vets wanting the ceremony was according to DOD over taxing the ability to provide the details. There was a lot of debate in the military community about the government not properly honoring our vets.

At the start of the war Bush was very popular in Army circles at least, he is now about as unpopular with soldiers as he is in the wider community. Family members, many whom have seen their loved ones shipped off to Iraq three or four times, sometimes for up to 15 months, often have utter disdain for Bush.

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hawkeye10 wrote:

The ceremony was downgraded in 2000, because the die-off of ww2 vets wanting the ceremony was according to DOD over taxing the ability to provide the details. There was a lot of debate in the military community about the government not properly honoring our vets.

The aging of WWII vets is only one portion of that issue.

With the BRAC process many bases have been closed so there aren't local bases in many places to draw honor guard teams from anymore.

In the northeast, for example, the Air Force used to have honor guard teams at Griffiss and Plattsburgh AFBs in NY, Hanscom AFB in MA and Loring AFB in ME. Now, only Hanscom remains so the honor guard team there covers all of the New England states (CT, RI, MA, VT, NH and ME)as well as NY and some of PA. At the same time Hanscom reduced the number of active duty personnel and increased the number of civilian contractors so you have one installation providing honor guard teams for 3, 4 or 5 funerals a day scattered over several hundred thousand square miles with fewer people to draw from.

When I was still on active duty the average AF base had maybe 15 people on it's honor guard team at any given time. Now they have to have at least 60 to cover their assigned areas.

The other services are in the same boat. That same land area on the Army side is covered by honor guard teams from West Point (in NY) and on the Navy side by teams from the sub base in New London, CT.

This particular issue more of an unplanned/unforseen side-effect of base closures than it is an increase in deaths amongst vets.

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It's always interesting to see the home town in print.

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Wow, that's amazing snood. So you think the change is only local?

At my dad's service at Arlington in '91, I only recall the phrase "on behalf of a grateful nation" (which still chokes me up a bit). I'll ask my mom what she remembers; she loves to reminisce these days. There's a video for actual proof if needed...

We also had a memorial service in Baton Rouge for Dad. The honor guard drove in from England AFB - about 150 miles. I was amazed.

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mac11 wrote:

Wow, that's amazing snood. So you think the change is only local?

At my dad's service at Arlington in '91, I only recall the phrase "on behalf of a grateful nation" (which still chokes me up a bit). I'll ask my mom what she remembers; she loves to reminisce these days. There's a video for actual proof if needed...

We also had a memorial service in Baton Rouge for Dad. The honor guard drove in from England AFB - about 150 miles. I was amazed.

I'm pretty sure this has been a local phenomenon. Not the first thing I've found they do a lil' differently here in LOOSyanna. The change was a specific concession to adjust to the reactions of a couple of the families. I don't know even how temporary or permanent the change will be, but that's how they tell me I'll be doing my ceremony for the time being.

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Wow.

Makes sense, though.

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snood wrote:

I'm pretty sure this has been a local phenomenon. Not the first thing I've found they do a lil' differently here in LOOSyanna. The change was a specific concession to adjust to the reactions of a couple of the families. I don't know even how temporary or permanent the change will be, but that's how they tell me I'll be doing my ceremony for the time being.

I don't think it is a local change. I have been looking and everything I have found so far says essentially the same thing - each branch of the Armed Forces uses its own wording for the presentation. All of the examples I have found show the Army wording as not including the president while the other four services include "on behalf of the President of the United States " and the head of the service.

examples:

U.S. Army: "This flag is presented on behalf of a grateful nation and the United States Army as a token of appreciation for your loved one's honorable and faithful service."

U.S. Marine Corps: "On behalf of the President of the United States, the Commandant of the Marine Corps, and a grateful nation, please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one's service to Country and Corps.

What I haven't been able to find is how long the current protocols have been in use.

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Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.

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wtf was that about, hanno?

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Well snood,

I thnk hanno is concerned that if you mentioned the president you might have to resort to violence to make them take the flag. hanno thinks violence would be better than removing "the president" from the statement. That's the only thing I can figure out from his comment.

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fishin wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
The ceremony was downgraded in 2000, because the die-off of ww2 vets wanting the ceremony was according to DOD over taxing the ability to provide the details. There was a lot of debate in the military community about the government not properly honoring our vets.

The aging of WWII vets is only one portion of that issue.

With the BRAC process many bases have been closed so there aren't local bases in many places to draw honor guard teams from anymore.

The way I remember it the BRAC process resulted in the reserves needing to find Honor Guards because of the increasing travel distance problem for AD as well as the strain of so many funerals. After the change the reserves found that they have trouble finding people who can do it (short notice, mid-week and so on). That this was part of the reason the number per team was cut. Not sure about the sequence of events, but i think this is right.

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I don't know when the "President" was removed from the flag handing, but I do remember hearing about some pissed off mothers who were highly offended that the man they blame for their kids death was mentioned at the funeral in an honorary way. This was about two years into the war.

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snood wrote:

wtf was that about, hanno?

I thought this was an anti war/Bush thing.

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hanno wrote:

snood wrote:
wtf was that about, hanno?

I thought this was an anti war/Bush thing.

If you have read my posts for a while, you will know I don't like Bush or this particular war. BUT, when I wrote this thread, I was just passing on my shock at being told that my script for funeral detail had been changed. And my shock that it had been changed because of some people's strong negative reactions to hearing the words "The President of the United States" during a funeral for their loved one who (probably) had died in this war.

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snood
At my dad's funeral last August, there were 9 members of the Honor Guard and if you count the Chaplain, then it was 10. I posted the pictures so you can count them. My dad retired US Army. I did call my mom and ask her what was said when the flag was handed to her since I couldn't hear because of where I was sitting. She said the word "President" was not said as far as she remembers.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9500/dad13eh7.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7138/dad24wa2.jpg

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There were three uniformed army guys at my dad's service in Massachusetts. They had a portable radio with a cassette tape of taps that they played while saluting my dad's ashes and presenting the flag to me. I don't remember what was said, but I don't think it included anything about the president. They each saluted the priest who presided over the service because he outranked them when he was in the army.

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A funny thing happened on the way to funeral detail

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