God, how I hate McCain

I recently saw a McCain campaign ad claiming that McCain has drawn inspiration from Ronald Regan ever since McCain was taken POW.

But how can this be?

McCain was taken POW on October 26, 1967. By that date Ronald Reagan had held public elective office for only 265 days. The biggest (only?) national political exposure that Regan had had before McCain was taken POW was giving a speech for Barry Goldwater in the 1964 presidential campaign.

Just how disingenuous can McCain get? Just how gullible does he think we are?

Why node a speech Reagan made early in his career for an unsuccessful candidate? Many Reagan fans and critics mark this speech as Reagan's first and perhaps best statement of his political ideals. The political movement that swept Reagan into office in the 1980s is known as neoconservative. To the "neo-cons" this became known as simply, "The Speech". Besides the names mentioned in it, the speech shows the influence of political thinkers such as Edmund Burke and Frederich Hayek on both Goldberg and Reagan.

The McCains became frequent guests of honor at dinners hosted by Governor of California Ronald Reagan and his wife Nancy Reagan; Ronald Reagan had been admired by McCain and other POWs even while in captivity, and would serve as a later role model for McCain.

Seeing as how McCain probably saw or listened to the speech, then he would be truthful in saying that "he drew inspiration from Reagan (or the words he spoke) while a POW.

The McCains became frequent guests of honor at dinners hosted by Governor of California Ronald Reagan and his wife Nancy Reagan;

Ronald Reagan inspired Americans before the 1960s

You use a tome written by McCain and his people to validate a claim made by McCain?


I think that would qualify as not a very convincing reference.

But how can this be?

McCain was taken POW on October 26, 1967. By that date Ronald Reagan had held public elective office for only 265 days. The biggest (only?) national political exposure that Regan had had before McCain was taken POW was giving a speech for Barry Goldwater in the 1964 presidential campaign.

`I'm McCain's biographer," cautions Timberg. "I'm not his champion." Still, the respected Washington correspondent and former Marine officer -- who, like McCain, is an Annapolis graduate and Vietnam veteran -- is acknowledged as a shrewd observer of former prisoner of war McCain and the seeming political phenomenon that has generated around him.

snood wrote:

You use a tome written by McCain and his people to validate a claim made by McCain?


I think that would qualify as not a very convincing reference.

Seeing as how I was not defending McCain, or trying to prove the validity of the quote, I was answering the question:

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But how can this be?

McCain was taken POW on October 26, 1967. By that date Ronald Reagan had held public elective office for only 265 days. The biggest (only?) national political exposure that Regan had had before McCain was taken POW was giving a speech for Barry Goldwater in the 1964 presidential campaign.

As to the claim that the book is written by McCain and his people. It was not penned by McCain (that's why it's a biography). Timberg, would not be, in my opinion, one of his people. Yes they attended the Naval Academy together, but have had their own lives since. I can go into his career if you like, but I'm sure you have done that on your own. As to the reason he is a credible source:

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`I'm McCain's biographer," cautions Timberg. "I'm not his champion." Still, the respected Washington correspondent and former Marine officer -- who, like McCain, is an Annapolis graduate and Vietnam veteran -- is acknowledged as a shrewd observer of former prisoner of war McCain and the seeming political phenomenon that has generated around him.

source

You use a tome written by McCain and his people to validate a claim made by McCain?


I think that would qualify as not a very convincing reference.

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The terms Marine officer, Annapolis graduate and Vietnam veteran are not usually things you hear associated with "Washington correspondent". Someone with these credentials isn't likely to end up working for the media.

The source is suspect.

Suspect how??? because he embarked upon a career other than the military after returning from the Vietnam War??? I think he is very well qualified.

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Robert Timberg is the author of The Nightingale's Song and John McCain, An American Odyssey. He served with the First Marine Division in South Vietnam from March 1966 to February 1967. He has worked at The Baltimore Sun for three decades as a reporter, editor and White House correspondent. Currently deputy chief of the Sun's Washington bureau, he lives in Bethesda, Md.

source

You have documentation that McCain had heard Reagan's speech? Remember that we didn't have today's wall-to-wall media in the 1960s. I was a Reagan fan in my youth, but I've never heard his Goldwater speech in its entity.

How many such dinners could there have been? McCain was released from POW captivity until March 15, 1973. Ronald Reagan's term as governor ended in January 1975.

McCain claimed he was influenced by Reagan and this reference shows that he has been consistent in making that claim instead of pulling it out at the last minute in the campaign, so I think it is valid.

McCain has actually followed Reagan in several places. Reagan was for immigration reform.

Reagan cut taxes, but the tax rates were much higher then.

I doubt Reagan would be pushing for tax cuts during a war.

McCain is a free thinker in a party that currently is insisting in absolute loyalty to the party leadership.

When he entered politics, the Republican party was something else. It has changed, not him.

Suspect how??? because he embarked upon a career other than the military after returning from the Vietnam War??? I think he is very well qualified.

Robert Timberg is the author of The Nightingale's Song and John McCain, An American Odyssey. He served with the First Marine Division in South Vietnam from March 1966 to February 1967. He has worked at The Baltimore Sun for three decades as a reporter, editor and White House correspondent. Currently deputy chief of the Sun's Washington bureau, he lives in Bethesda, Md.

No, I have no such documentation of him seeing or hearing the speech. Nor do I assume you have any that he DID NOT see or hear the speech. Having been alive in the 60's, I do remember that we did not have wall to wall media, just the big 3. That would increase the chances of him seeing the speech, IMO.

I don't know how many dinners there were, but seeing as it is in its in the plural form, I would say more than one.

Why do you find it so hard to believe that someone could be inspired by someone?

You yourself are were a Reagan fan, and probably never even met the man.

It may be relatively easy for someone today to find a video or audio recording of this speech considering that we have the internet and cable TV. But, I would venture that if McCain didn't hear or see the speech when it was delivered in 1964, he never saw or heard it before he was taken POW in 1967. The chances that this speech had any impact on McCain are slim at best.

Was it 2? Was it 4? Was it 200 or 400?
I find it odd that Reagan and McCain could have had such a close relationship over such a long period of time and McCain was in Congress for 6 of Reagan's 8 years in the White House and I never even heard of McCain until McCain went to the Senate- long after Regan was out of office.

The terms Marine officer, Annapolis graduate and Vietnam veteran are not usually things you hear associated with "Washington correspondent". Someone with these credentials isn't likely to end up working for the media.

The source is suspect.

Well, unless one of us are going to call him and ask, I think that this part of the post is dead. Neither of us can prove or disprove it.

I have no idea how many times they had dinner together and honestly don't have time to research it.

Nobody said they had a close relationship. You don't have to have a close relationship or, for that matter, even personally know someone in order to be inspired by them.

And just for the record, McCain went from the house to the Senate in 1986, while Reagan was still in office, replacing ironically enough, Barry Goldwater.....

And are you suggesting that someone who is "just" an Annapolis graduate, ex-Marine Officer, and Vietnam Vet could not be trusted to write a truthful and objective book about McCain?

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I'm saying that a Marine officer, Annapolis graduate or Vietnam Vet wouldn't want to become a reporter.

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Your time may be better served by reading the biography rather than picking apart campaign ads to find dubious contradictions.

The part about McCain's philandering is enough to sour me on him permanently. The ad doesn't surprise me since McCain's entire character is suspect.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

And are you suggesting that someone who is "just" an Annapolis graduate, ex-Marine Officer, and Vietnam Vet could not be trusted to write a truthful and objective book about McCain?

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I'm saying that a Marine officer, Annapolis graduate or Vietnam Vet wouldn't want to become a reporter.

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Your time may be better served by reading the biography rather than picking apart campaign ads to find dubious contradictions.

The part about McCain's philandering is enough to sour me on him permanently. The ad doesn't surprise me since McCain's entire character is suspect.

You're a fairly shallow thinking. Do issues play a part in your decision process?