1
   

Why would anyone vote for McCain?

 
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 12:08 am
So far as I know, no one yet at A2K has tried to belittle McCain's courage and fortitude during captivity, or afterwards. That isn't universally true. I've already seen a couple allegations that his record is a tissue of lies. I may be wrong, but it seems like that was part of Howard Dean's letter calling for the Democratic Party to begin its attacks on McCain. If my memory is faulty, I apologize in advance.

My recollection and memory of books read many years ago remains intact, and I don't very often misremember essentials, but over the last year or so I find myself unable to recall details. Sometimes while writing I now have to come to a complete stop and really work to recover a simple word or term that precisely fits my meaning. That's new. Since Natalie's first hospitalization a year or so ago, I'm beginning to slide. Probably no one would have guessed it, but most of my life I've been very structured and really need an orderly environment to prosper. When Natalie was in the hospital this past December and early January, Corazon began to look as if Oscar Madison had moved in. I slept late, ate out of cans, and the dishes piled up in the sink (rinsed, but unwashed and stowed properly away). There are folks around who joke that I acted like I was seventy before reaching 55, but now I wonder ..... what? What do I wonder? I've forgotten. Oh yes, its past my bedtime. Cookie crumbs in my tangled white beard and visions of sugar plumbs dance in my head. Ah....
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 06:59 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ash-

Quote:
Now they would like to make light of McCain's courage and dedication.


No way. I disagree with nearly everything you write but let me tell you that this leftie would never do that, ever. People who do don't have a clue what he went through.

Cycloptichorn


Have you read blueflames most recent posts about Sen. McCain?
He has done nothing but attack McCains record during his captivity.

Oh, he will say he posted it because he thought it was interesting, but to use your own words..."that posting an article, and then pretending that you aren't endorsing what it says, is a bullsh*t excuse".

He posted it because he believes it.
You might want to tell bf that he doesnt have a clue.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 09:27 am
Advocate doesn't have a clue either, MM.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 09:30 am
Quote:
The Right Is Wrong on McCain
By ROBERT MCFARLANE
February 9, 2008; Page A8


There's an old Groucho Marx riff in which he launches a new career as a stick-up artist -- while worrying that his native cowardice may not induce the requisite fear among his victims. Sure enough, after a little time in a dark alley he springs out to confront his first victim, points his gun to his own head and says, "Take one step closer and I'll kill myself."

Such is the posture today among pundits on the far right of the Republican Party as Sen. John McCain moves closer to receiving his party's nomination. Consider the destructive implications of their pledge to work against Mr. McCain's nomination and even -- in the event he is nominated -- not to vote in the general election. Start with where it would leave our country -- presumably under the leadership of either Democrat candidate -- in the two domains where we will face critical challenges in the years ahead: our national security and the threat of an economic meltdown.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1096/hcgg204limbau2007041020xc7.gif

Notwithstanding the reversal of trends in Iraq of a year ago, we face a long and difficult struggle in the war to turn back the nihilistic crusade being waged by radical Islam. By my reckoning after 25 visits to Pakistan, over a half-million adolescents willing to blow themselves up have "graduated" from more than 1,000 Wahabbist madrassas in that country.

Both Afghanistan and Pakistan are on the threshold of sinking into violent chaos as failed states unless new, experienced American leadership can conceive and launch an effective strategy -- and convince allies to join in its execution -- to turn matters around and cut off the Taliban and al Qaeda at their roots. Such a victory is feasible under competent leadership by introducing a classical counterinsurgency strategy.

Concurrent with the conflict on the battlefield, the new administration must tackle the complex task of fostering long-term economic and political stability in these forlorn countries. Here again, such a strategy is complex but not difficult to conceive. Its successful execution is only imaginable, however, in the hands of a knowledgeable, experienced leader -- who enjoys respect among allies -- who will be sorely needed to win this struggle.

Clearly John McCain fits the bill. To choose anyone without the vital knowledge, experience and leadership skills for this role is to invite disaster.

The nonmilitary cost and impact of these national security challenges form a natural segue to consideration of major economic challenges we must overcome in the years ahead. Today we are spending more than $300 billion annually to purchase foreign oil. It is well known that some of that money is passed on to al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. Indeed, it is fair to say that we are funding both sides in this war.

We spend $500 billion each year on our military forces. One of their most vital missions is to protect the flow of Persian Gulf oil which fuels the global economy. The disruption of those oil flows -- such as by terrorists disabling a major Saudi processing terminal -- would bring down economies throughout the industrialized world.

Here again, one can conceive a strategy for neutralizing this threat. It involves moving urgently to introduce a profoundly different national energy policy designed to do the following:

- Provide market-based incentives to justify the essential re-tooling of our automobile industry to enable it to produce flexible-fuel, plug-in hybrid electric cars and trucks, using carbon composite materials (as Boeing is doing in the new 787 airliner);

- Accelerate the commercial production of cellulosic ethanol, butanol and other bio-fuels; and

- License new nuclear power plants.

In addition to the aforementioned challenges, our next president must prevent the spread of nuclear weapons by any of the more than 40-plus nations that are capable of that step within five to 10 years. Of course we must also prevent terrorist groups from gaining access to nuclear materials -- not a task for someone learning on the job.

Surely Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham and Ann Coulter can agree that these challenges are terribly demanding and cannot be left to luck or divine providence. Finally, there is the cost of their extremist rhetoric to the Republican Party. As President Reagan once told me, "Going over the cliff, flags flying, is still going over the cliff."

Mr. McFarlane served as President Reagan's national security adviser.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 12:32 pm
Possibly, the best argument for supporting McCain is that the nuttiest end of the conservative movement dislike him so intensely.

Certainly, the best result from his candidacy will be the relative isolation of those extremists and a dawning awareness by other Republican supporters that those same extremists have done a fine job of hijacking the party and throwing it over into something quite ugly.
0 Replies
 
hanno
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 02:08 pm
I am the nuttiest end of conservativism and here's why I'm for McCain:

Electrified, clanking balls of steel, verified as such in service of our nation.

Distinct lack of intent to show any particular American demographic what time it is (historically lacking in both parties) to buy votes from rival demographics and accordingly, a deep and abiding respect for the freedom and wishes of all.

Distinct willingness, by his own hand if necessary, to show other nations what time it is.

Best experience, most realistic policy for most issues.

Outside of politics, already a part of the fabric of our nation, something we can all agree on from one of our most turbulent yet enlightening eras.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 02:19 pm
mysteryman, "Have you read blueflames most recent posts about Sen. McCain?
He has done nothing but attack McCains record during his captivity." Not close to being true. I pointed out that there are those who contradict McCain's version of his torture. I never said I agreed or disagreed. My problems with McCain have nothing to do with his war record.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 02:25 pm
Does The Brownshirt Party Have Aces Up Its Sleeve?

By Paul Craig Roberts

08/02/08 -- -- The Brownshirt Party has chosen John "hundred year war" McCain as its presidential candidate. Except for Cheney, Norman Podhoretz, and billy kristol, McCain is America's greatest warmonger.

In a McCain Regime, Cheney will be back in office with another stint as Secretary of War. Norman "Bomb-bomb-bomb-Iran" Podhoretz will be Undersecretary for Nuclear War with General John "Nuke them" Shalikashvili as his deputy. Rudy Giuliani will be the Minister of Interior in charge of Halliburton's detention centers into which will be herded all critics of war and the police state. billy kristol will be chief White House spokesliar.

The whole gang will be back--Wolfowitz, Perle, Wurmster, Feith, Libby, Bolton. America will have a second chance to bomb the world into submission.

With the majority of voters sick of war, sick of lies, sick of fraud from the Federal Reserve and Wall Street, and sick of stagnant and falling incomes, McCain is poised to capture 20% of the vote--the Christian Zionists, the rapture evangelicals, and the diehard macho flag-waving thugs who believe America is done for unless "Islamofacists" are exterminated.

The accumulated lies, deceptions, war crimes, the shame of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo prisons, Bush's police state assault on civil liberty, countless numbers of Iraqi and Afghan men, women, and children murdered for the sake of American and Israeli hegemony, and the collapsing US economy indicate a political wipeout for the Brownshirt Party. In a country with an informed and humane population, the Republican Party would be reduced to such a small minority that it could never recover.

What will happen in America? Polls show that Americans have had it with Bush, and the 2006 congressional election showed that the voters have had it with Republicans. But the Republicans have seen the message and ignored it, and the people and the Democrats have continued to tolerate and to enable that which they claim to oppose.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info:80/article19308.htm
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 02:48 pm
Maybe the rift in the Republican party will finally invite the creation of a third party in American politics. I had wondered how it was that libertarian Republicans could reconcile their ideas with those of the social conservative Republicans. A few years ago a member responded that it wasn't much of a concern for him since he believed that the social conservatives were older citizens and, the libertarians were a younger demographic, and would eventually overtake the social conservatives. He was wrong in his assumption that social conservatives were older citizens. The religious groups that make up that section of the Republican party are as populous as ever, and while some do share some of the ideals of libertarians, namely the idea of laissez-faire, they certainly do not share their ideas of social liberalism.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 03:02 pm
Quote:
I am the nuttiest end of conservativism and here's why I'm for McCain:

Electrified, clanking balls of steel, verified as such in service of our nation.

Perhaps clanking, but if his balls are electrified, that will be a consequence of his Viet Namese torturers clamping electrodes to aforementioned balls. Consequently, we can make the prediction that Guantanamo and other such more secretive holding facilities are now producing many future islamic versions of McCain with clanking and electrified balls of steel.

Quote:
Distinct lack of intent to show any particular American demographic what time it is (historically lacking in both parties) to buy votes from rival demographics and accordingly, a deep and abiding respect for the freedom and wishes of all.

Oh fer shur. No sucking up to the christian right from John over the last four years, no siree. No change on taxation and immigration to please them folks like, perhaps, youse.

Quote:
Distinct willingness, by his own hand if necessary, to show other nations what time it is.

Um...he's gonna go in to Iran by hisself and teach them smelly-buggers what's up?

Quote:
Best experience, most realistic policy for most issues.

Mixed bag, perhaps. After all, that experience thing includes the rather prominent matter of being tortured and on that one he has surrender-monkey ideas of what the CIA (and those neat private contractors) do to the smelly-buggers.

Quote:
Outside of politics, already a part of the fabric of our nation, something we can all agree on from one of our most turbulent yet enlightening eras.

Yuppers. Part of the fabric. Like Paris Hilton. Like Bill Clinton. Like Chuck Manson and Luke Skywalker. When you're part of the Great American Fabric, then...dammit that's the best there is.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 03:33 pm
blueflame1 wrote:
Does The Brownshirt Party Have Aces Up Its Sleeve?

By Paul Craig Roberts

08/02/08 -- -- The Brownshirt Party has chosen John "hundred year war" McCain as its presidential candidate. Except for Cheney, Norman Podhoretz, and billy kristol, McCain is America's greatest warmonger.

In a McCain Regime, Cheney will be back in office with another stint as Secretary of War. Norman "Bomb-bomb-bomb-Iran" Podhoretz will be Undersecretary for Nuclear War with General John "Nuke them" Shalikashvili as his deputy. Rudy Giuliani will be the Minister of Interior in charge of Halliburton's detention centers into which will be herded all critics of war and the police state. billy kristol will be chief White House spokesliar.

The whole gang will be back--Wolfowitz, Perle, Wurmster, Feith, Libby, Bolton. America will have a second chance to bomb the world into submission.

With the majority of voters sick of war, sick of lies, sick of fraud from the Federal Reserve and Wall Street, and sick of stagnant and falling incomes, McCain is poised to capture 20% of the vote--the Christian Zionists, the rapture evangelicals, and the diehard macho flag-waving thugs who believe America is done for unless "Islamofacists" are exterminated.

The accumulated lies, deceptions, war crimes, the shame of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo prisons, Bush's police state assault on civil liberty, countless numbers of Iraqi and Afghan men, women, and children murdered for the sake of American and Israeli hegemony, and the collapsing US economy indicate a political wipeout for the Brownshirt Party. In a country with an informed and humane population, the Republican Party would be reduced to such a small minority that it could never recover.

What will happen in America? Polls show that Americans have had it with Bush, and the 2006 congressional election showed that the voters have had it with Republicans. But the Republicans have seen the message and ignored it, and the people and the Democrats have continued to tolerate and to enable that which they claim to oppose.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info:80/article19308.htm


With the title, of the above article, that is trying to analogize the Republicans to the Nazis, do you really expect a Republican reader to give any credence to what followed? Since the article makes ad hominem references to people, I personally just find the article boring.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 11:46 am
blueflame1 wrote:
mysteryman, "Have you read blueflames most recent posts about Sen. McCain?
He has done nothing but attack McCains record during his captivity." Not close to being true. I pointed out that there are those who contradict McCain's version of his torture. I never said I agreed or disagreed. My problems with McCain have nothing to do with his war record.


You posted it, so you must be endorsing what it says.

If you dont believe that, just read my sig line. Its a direct quote of Cyclo, one of the biggest liberals on here.

So, I am just holding you to the same standard that the right is being held to.
If you dont like that, tough sh*t.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 11:58 am
foofie, yeah but Paul Craig Roberts is a Republican who is known as the "Father of Reaganomics" from his days in the Reagan administration.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 12:01 pm
mysteryman, I post a lot of articles I dont agree with just as a way of posting the news. If you dont like that scroll. Takes less than a second.
0 Replies
 
 

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