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Will Clinton Win Massachusetts?

 
 
Miller
 
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 12:41 pm
The Bay State Battleground


If the Patriots win on Sunday, the crowd Tom Brady is sure to draw for a Tuesday victory parade could mean a Feb. 5 traffic jam in Boston. (AP).

By Keith B. Richburg
NEW YORK -- In past elections, Massachusetts, that bluest of blue states, has served mostly as a cash machine for Democratic presidential candidates. The state voted too late in the process to have much impact on the nomination, and was so reliably Democratic that it was never in play for the general election.

But this year, Massachusetts, voting on "Super Tuesday," Feb. 5, is relishing an unfamiliar role as a fiercely contested battleground in a nomination fight. The Massachusetts political establishment, including its traditionally deep-pocketed donors, are split between Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, and Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois. Most analysts are predicting a close fight that could go either way, with subplots that will test the power of the old Boston machine, the tug of longtime loyalties, the efficacy of the new governor's high-tech ground operation, and the enduring impact of the Kennedy mystique.

"It's going to be really tight," said Daniel B. Payne, a longtime media analyst for Democratic candidates.

On one side, the Clintons are well-liked in Massachusetts and enjoy a special affinity with the state. Bill and Hillary Clinton often vacationed at Martha's Vineyard, and retreated there during their low points, like after Bill Clinton's grand jury testimony during the Monica Lewinsky affair. Hillary Clinton is being supported by the Boston mayor, Thomas Menino, who has a city organization that can get out the votes, as well as the speaker of the state's house of representatives.

On the other side, Obama now has the support of the state's two U.S. senators, John Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy, as well as the early and enthusiastic backing of Gov. Deval Patrick, who worked in Bill Clinton's Justice Department.

Kennedy is a beloved figure in the state. But the state's senior senator and heir to the Camelot legacy has not faced a contested election since he defeated Mitt Romney for reelection in 1994, and there are questions as to whether the vaunted Kennedy organization has atrophied. For Obama, the real power of Kennedy's backing will be to turn out organized labor, analysts said. And for Kennedy, the contest in Massachusetts now becomes personal. "It would be embarrassing to Senator Kennedy if Senator Clinton won Massachusetts after he endorsed Obama," Payne said. "He's putting his prestige on the line."

Kerry is preoccupied with his own reelection bid this year. So the endorsement that really counts the most for Obama, in terms of a statewide ground operation, is that of Patrick, who is generally thought to have the state's most efficient Internet- and e-mail-based organization. "He has clearly the most sophisticated and modern get-out-the-vote effort in Massachusetts," said Michael Goldman, of the Government Insight Group, and a longtime political consultant in Massachusetts who is not working for any candidate this year.

Many have compared Obama's national campaign to the winning one Patrick put together in Massachusetts -- including its reliance on young people, its use of the internet, and the fact that Patrick is a black candidate who ran a racially transcendent campaign in a state with a relatively small black population. "I think what you're looking at here is that Patrick's organization looks like what the Obama campaign is trying to create," Payne said.

Goldman said he believes in the end the big-name endorsements do not matter much. "When it comes to the president, people are going to make up their own minds - polling has been telling us that forever," Goldman said. "People who love Kennedy are not leaving Hillary Clinton because he's with Obama."

Most recent polls saw Clinton holding about a 12-point lead in Massachusetts. But Obama backers are confident that with recent events, those numbers will shift. "With our two senators and governor backing Obama, and with the Kennedy mystique, it's a positive turn," said Charles Ogletree, a Harvard University law professor who has been strongly backing Obama. "In this state, you have people with divided loyalties," he said.

The Bay State's key fundraisers are among those divided. On Hillary Clinton's side is Steve Grossman, a businessman and former Democratic National Committee chairman who was one of Bill Clinton's main fundraisers. On the Obama side is Alan Solomont, an entrepreneur and philanthropist who was one of Bill Clinton's top moneymen going back to 1992.

One unknown factor could impact the voting Tuesday; if the New England Patriots win the Super Bowl on Sunday, the victory parade will be held Tuesday in Boston, Mayor Menino said this week.

Some elected officials, including the secretary of state, are concerned about the prospect of a throng of Patriots' fans crowding the streets at the same time election officials are predicting record turnout. John Kerry joked, "This could cause the worst gridlock since back when the Republicans controlled Congress.

WashingtonPost
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,580 • Replies: 67
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 12:44 pm
Will there still be a parade if the Pats lose on Sunday?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 12:57 pm
Miller wrote:
Will there still be a parade if the Pats lose on Sunday?

Yes, but it will be in New York. Laughing
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 01:23 pm
She will certainly win in Cambridge
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 01:34 pm
I think it more likely that she wins Ca and loses in Mass.
NY will be a tossup, I think, with whoever wins it winning by a very small margin.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 02:20 pm
mysteryman wrote:
I think it more likely that she wins Ca and loses in Mass.
NY will be a tossup, I think, with whoever wins it winning by a very small margin.

If Clinton doesn't kill Obama in NY, it will be a major upset. She is well loved there and won re-election very convincingly.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 02:34 pm
woiyo wrote:
She will certainly win in Cambridge


She almost certainly will NOT win in Cambridge.

Cambridge is liberal urban area with a large number of educated professionals.

All of these things favor Obama.

((I would gladly bet on this if you would like.))
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 03:20 pm
I agree ebrown. I was recently at a NE ivy covered college and all the dorm windows had Obama posters.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 04:06 pm
This Hillary is liberal thing is funny.

The fact is Hillary is not a liberal-- she and her husband are centrists. If you look at their policies, and her votes in the Senate, she falls in the center on many issues from gay rights, to immigrant rights to the "war on terror(tm)".

Hillary did nothing to earn the liberal label. It was given to her (along with her husband) by right wing yahoos who were trying to win elections.

The people who insist on calling Hillary a liberal do so because...

1) they don't really understand American politics.
2) they put way too much weight to what hate radio airheads say.

The funny thing is that Obama has better policies... and a significantly better record in Congress, but because hate radio already gave Hillary the "liberal" tag, Obama is going to be accepted as the moderate.

Go figure.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 08:00 pm
woiyo wrote:
She will certainly win in Cambridge


Laughing
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 08:03 pm
Green Witch wrote:
I agree ebrown. I was recently at a NE ivy covered college and all the dorm windows had Obama posters.


Why then, don't those under 35 years of age run to the polls?

Next Tuesday, most of the voters will be over 65 years of age, many on walkers, some blind and others very senile. But, they're the voters who'll bring Hillary into the White House.

Mean while the college kids will be asleep or eating their chips and drinking their soda...
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 08:11 pm
engineer wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
I think it more likely that she wins Ca and loses in Mass.
NY will be a tossup, I think, with whoever wins it winning by a very small margin.

If Clinton doesn't kill Obama in NY, it will be a major upset. She is well loved there and won re-election very convincingly.


Clinton could also beat Obama in Illinois. There's a big Hispanic population with much love for Hillary and there's much hatred between Blacks and Hispanics in Chicago and many other parts of Illinois.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 08:13 pm
ebrown_p wrote:


Cambridge is liberal urban area with a large number of ...



...crazy people with pink hair and black fingernails.


Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 08:17 pm
Miller wrote:

Next Tuesday, most of the voters will be over 65 years of age, many on walkers, some blind and others very senile. But, they're the voters who'll bring Hillary into the White House.


I find your statement just bizarre. We're talking about voting, not playing slot machines in Atlantic City.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 08:24 pm
Green Witch wrote:
Miller wrote:

Next Tuesday, most of the voters will be over 65 years of age, many on walkers, some blind and others very senile. But, they're the voters who'll bring Hillary into the White House.


I find your statement just bizarre. We're talking about voting, not playing slot machines in Atlantic City.


Most of the voters will be 65+ in age. This is a known fact. Check out the stats and you'll see that those in the 35 and younger range often don't vote, thus allowing the elderly to gather momentum.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 08:49 pm
I repeat my offer of a friendly wager. The results are published by precinct so there will be official figures of which candidate got the most votes in Cambridge.

I propose this bet against either one of you.

If Clinton gets the more votes than Obama in the city of Cambrige, I will give $50 to the charity of your choice. If Obama gets more votes than Clinton, you will write the same amount to the charity of my choice (which will be the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition).
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 09:43 pm
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 09:44 pm
Quote:
One recent poll puts Clinton ahead of Sen. Barack Obama in Massachusetts by more than 30 points, 59 percent to 22 percent. The same poll shows Romney up on McCain, 50 percent to 29 percent
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 09:47 pm
woiyo wrote:
She will certainly win in Cambridge


Why do you say?

I had pretty much thought it was a toss up between Clinton and Obama here in the state and especially in the city of Cambridge. I may be wrong about that. A local news show was saying MA is Clinton country. We shall see.

edit: I see now I am with ebrown on this issue (go figure!). Had I any money I would double his bet.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 09:52 pm
If Hillary takes Massachusetts, it'll be a big slap against Kennedy... Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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