Will Hillary Clinton become "likeable."

Gala wrote:

From a political standpoint-- both he and Hillary are just too Liberal.

This is often repeated and I find it confusing. Both President and Senator Clinton are very moderate. Of all the Democrats running, I think a Republican with no history on the candidates would vote for Clinton hands down. She's pro-war, pro-business, don't rock the boat, etc compared to the other Democrats still running, but Republicans can't stand her. Being a moderate is always tough in the primaries, but she's really getting killed in the middle.

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Yeah... I think that conservative don't like Bill because he was sucessful... and so the tacked the worst label they could of think of on him.... "liberal".

It doesn't make any sense given their rather non-liberal policies.

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engineer wrote:

Gala wrote:
From a political standpoint-- both he and Hillary are just too Liberal.

This is often repeated and I find it confusing. Both President and Senator Clinton are very moderate. Of all the Democrats running, I think a Republican with no history on the candidates would vote for Clinton hands down. She's pro-war, pro-business, don't rock the boat, etc compared to the other Democrats still running, but Republicans can't stand her. Being a moderate is always tough in the primaries, but she's really getting killed in the middle.

Wait a minute-- is Ralph the son of chief Wiggum?

Yes and no about her being a moderate.

She was all in favor of giving illegal aliens driver's licenses in NY when Eliot Spitzer proposed it-- Bill's first act as president was to take on the gay issue in the military and he got his wings clipped on that one. Lanie Guanier? Both have pulled in the reins, but their first objective has always been Liberal.

Bill Clinton cut back on the military. That's given the Repubplicans some fuel. etc.

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Gala wrote:

Wait a minute-- is Ralph the son of chief Wiggum?

Yes. In the latest Simpsons, Springfield moved its primary to before New Hampshire. Homer got tired of all the candidates and conspired with his fellow lushes at Moe's to get Ralphie to win (in a landslide), giving him instant credibility going into other primaries.

Ralph's policy positions:
On ethics: "I'm Ralph Wiggum, and I've been a good boy."
On government spending: "I only have this much moneys."
On party politics: "Everyone is invited to my party!"
On foreign relations: "When we're mad, we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants."

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engineer wrote:

Gala wrote:
Wait a minute-- is Ralph the son of chief Wiggum?

Yes. In the latest Simpsons, Springfield moved its primary to before New Hampshire. Homer got tired of all the candidates and conspired with his fellow lushes at Moe's to get Ralphie to win (in a landslide), giving him instant credibility going into other primaries.

Ralph's policy positions:
On ethics: "I'm Ralph Wiggum, and I've been a good boy."
On government spending: "I only have this much moneys."
On party politics: "Everyone is invited to my party!"
On foreign relations: "When we're mad, we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants."

Well, he certainly has a credible platform, and he's adorable to boot. He's got my vote.

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Edwards is the one I would like to vote for. Clinton is my second choice. She is a conserative light. Bill was more conserative than he was liberal, but he made it work. I think she would be an adequate president. Obama dosent appeal to me because I cant figure out what he stands for. He talks about changing washington but how is he going to do it. All he says is he is going to change it without declaring what he is going to change or how he is going to go about it. Just as he said he wouldn't have voted for the war if he had been in congress when it came up for a vote. Its easy to claim because he docent have to back up his claim. He is taking the same tack that Bush did and look what we ended up with. The main thing he (Obama) has going for him is the fact no one knows what he really stands for. Check his record in the Illinois representatives and see how many times he voted to abstain from voting. He is a transplant that the Daily chicago political machine brought in to run for office. As i've stated before anyone tied to the chicago machine is a crook. Check how many chicago politicians have landed in jail and the number that are headed there now who ran for and were elected to state office. Make no mistake Obama is a chicago politician. I will have to force myself to vote Democrat if Obama is the candidate. Its really stupid to vote for him just because he is black. If I could find what he really thinks about government I might change my mind.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Yeah... I think that conservative don't like Bill because he was sucessful... and so the tacked the worst label they could of think of on him.... "liberal".

It doesn't make any sense given their rather non-liberal policies.

You've reminded me of this story: When Clinton was president a friend and I traveled to Arkansas.

At one point, we ended up getting lost driving on one of the back roads and decided to head into this remote shack of a liquor store-- We didn't know what to expect. As it turned out, there were a couple of local men who produced an atlas as soon as we told them where we were from (Yankees, the North). I asked them what they thought of Clinton. His answer: "he's a progressive Democrat and people are jealous of him."

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Foofie wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

In order to be "likeable" you must exert some measure of attraction over people who don't agree with your beliefs or approve of your actions. Reagan did this. Bill Clinton did this. George Bush has done this. His father is doing it. Charlie Rangle can do it; Chuck Schummer and Harry Reid cannot. Tip O'Neil did it and Newt Gingrich did not.

I think we might be talking at cross purposes based on different semantics. Likeability is just a subjective feeling that is related to the concept of biases. For example: popular culture considers some ethnic groups less likeable to those who identify with mainstream biases. So if one from a mainstream background has friend(s) from that "unlikeable" group, others might ask, "But they're really not likeable." In effect, the ascribing to someone an objective likeability index is specious, in my opinion, since it is a false premise to ascribe to likeability anything other than a subjective view. Sort of like some people like dogs and not cats, and vice versa. Can one say dogs are more likeable? Tell that to a cat person.

And your premise above that likeability requires one to "overcome" (with others) the drawback of one's beliefs or actions doesn't make sense to me. In effect, it sounds like one can then say that anti-Catholic Protestants voted for JFK because of his likeability factor? And, Al Smith was unlikeable, so his Catholicism cost him the election? I believe likeability isn't a deodorant to overcome the possible distaste (by others) of one's beliefs, or actions.

Again, I believe likeability is not an objective factor. Those who believe it may just feel more comfortable believing in this particular popular, but specious, notion. A related popular, but specious, notion is: It's not what you know, but who you know. O.K. at times that might prove correct, but it is not a natural law that means the most popular moves through a charmed life. Yet many people believe this.

Well, we disagree.

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Well Hillary is likeable enough for NH.

Have the pollsters ever been so wrong?

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CalamityJane wrote:

alex240101 wrote:
Politics. Like a first grade popularity contest. Hillary has paid her dues. Where's Ross Perot?

He'll candidate with Bloomberg as the "Capitalists".

They'd get my vote. :wink: (Damn it all to hell... why couldn't we have Ross?)

old europe wrote:

Foofie wrote:
Don't forget this is a big country, the size of three Europes.

<smiles>

OE, you are just too kind though on this count, strangely, Finn has out-kinded you

Miller wrote:

Obama plans on increasing the capital gains tax to 40%.

How can any sane person with invested money consider Obama to be "likable"?

There are actually two excellent reasons; one for lefties, one for righties (I like them both):

Right: Since I'm not a moron; I know that taxes have to be paid and X amount of money has to be raised. All things being equal; I'd rather pay a greater share of my burden after I'm dead.

Left: (Actually, I believe this helps virtually everyone) Post-mortem redistribution ensures that the best and the brightest have an opportunity to live the American Dream (rags to riches).

Personally; I think 40% is entirely too low.

McTag wrote:

Well Hillary is likeable enough for NH.

Have the pollsters ever been so wrong?

I'm sure they have. But I don't remember when

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McTag wrote:

Well Hillary is likeable enough for NH.

Have the pollsters ever been so wrong?

Good thing, too.

Here's a little tidbit for you over there in the land of the Queen Mum-- New Hampshire's license plates say "Live Free or Die." Thankfully, (although Obama wouldn't be a bad nominee) NH is not Iowa.

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McTag wrote:

Have the pollsters ever been so wrong?

Ah, it was you who said that! I misremembered, I thought it was Butrflynet. I was kind of answering to that, in a rambling and digressive kind of way, here.

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engineer wrote:

Gala wrote:
Wait a minute-- is Ralph the son of chief Wiggum?

Yes. In the latest Simpsons, Springfield moved its primary to before New Hampshire. Homer got tired of all the candidates and conspired with his fellow lushes at Moe's to get Ralphie to win (in a landslide), giving him instant credibility going into other primaries.

Ralph's policy positions:
On ethics: "I'm Ralph Wiggum, and I've been a good boy."
On government spending: "I only have this much moneys."
On party politics: "Everyone is invited to my party!"
On foreign relations: "When we're mad, we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants."

Ahhhh. Olbermann made a reference to Ralph Wiggum in a show last week and I couldn't figure out the connection. Because I hadn't seen this episode. How are the present crop of writers doing? The jokes above aren't terribly good.

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blatham wrote:

Ahhhh. Olbermann made a reference to Ralph Wiggum in a show last week and I couldn't figure out the connection. Because I hadn't seen this episode. How are the present crop of writers doing? The jokes above aren't terribly good.

No, the shows over the last two seasons have been fair to poor overall. Even this episode which poked fun at several left and right wing pundits was a little weak.

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Will Hillary Clinton become "likeable."

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