Would you hire me back as a freelancer after all this?

Kicky, your letter gives them way more info than they need.
Eva has written an excellent condensed version.
Use it.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

eoe wrote:
expect to get busy and have to pull some allnighters and work every weekend and every holiday until you've established yourself or have locked down a few clients of your own and then quit your present position and focus on working fulltime from home, your own office.

If that's what you want then my only question is just how badly do you want it? How much are you willing to sacrifice to get it?

AMEN!

I did 18-hour days, 7-days a week to build stuff on the side for the freedom I want. Now I'm going after it full time.

eoe and craven have nailed it dude... that's how I built my business and now almost 19 years later I'm doing it again, and it's not as easy with 19 extra years on me. Do it now while your body will obey your will because there will come a time when the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Then you'll wonder WTF happened.

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Eva wrote:

Sorry, Kicky, but that really does sound flaky. Too much angst, too wishy-washy.

You need to sound more decisive. Be concise. Here's an example:

Dear ----,

Our last conversation gave me a great deal to think about. I enjoy working here at ----, but I have decided that I would rather continue freelancing for you than accept a permanent position. In fact, I greatly enjoyed the time I spent in the bullpen and feel I did excellent work there. I wonder if it might be possible for me to return to that position (area?).

Thank you for considering me,

Kicky

If they want to talk about it further, they'll ask. Then you can tell them in person that they don't currently have a permanent position you're interested in. I wouldn't put that part in writing, though.

Ha, you should have seen what I had before I cleaned it up!

For the most part I like what you've done here, but I also feel like some of the things I put in mine should stay. Not all of it, but given all that has transpired over the past several months, I feel like I need to at least throw something in there to let him know that I wasn't just stringing him along all this time by flirting around with permanent employee status.

I think this is closer to what I'm shooting for than what I wrote though, so thanks.

I'll have to come back to it later though, as I'm in desperate need of a shower at the moment.

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Kicky, I think that's better suited for personal conversation. If you want to avoid flaky, then schedule an appointment with the boss and talk it over in person. Eva's letter is fine, this is not to be discussed via letters or emails, I believe. Try it, you'll feel good afterwards!

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Gotta agree with the furrin girl.

Keep it formal, and give details later off paper...

RH

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Hmm. If you guys think I should leave the details out of it, maybe I should. But...

I wrote the e-mail because I thought that I could explain things better that way than by an actual face-to-face meeting. In face-to-face meetings with bosses and authority figures, I tend to want to tell people what they want to hear. This hinders my ability to be clear, confident and concise at times. So I figured if I put it all in writing, I could say what I want without fear of blowing it.

If that isn't a good idea, then maybe I should just send my boss the concise letter that Eva wrote to let him know the basics, and change the letter I wrote into more of a "talking points" type thing that I can practice for the face-to-face that will follow after I send the e-mail. Yeah, that sounds like the professional way to do it. Right?

I think I am now getting into that "overthinking" zone. Maybe I should just walk over there when I'm ready and say the first thing that comes into my head.

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that blowing thing will work better in person as well. but then you knew that.

Seriously dude, pull up your socks and go tell 'em. what's the worst that could happen? Unemployed in New York City? it's not like rents are expensive there...

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dagmaraka wrote:

Kicky, I think that's better suited for personal conversation. If you want to avoid flaky, then schedule an appointment with the boss and talk it over in person. Eva's letter is fine, this is not to be discussed via letters or emails, I believe. Try it, you'll feel good afterwards!

Good advice imo

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Kicky, take it as a personal challenge. I am like you, I tend to withdraw in the face of power figure and I avoid confrontation whenever I can, even when it would be helpful. I know I have the skills to communicate assertively, but still it's not my preference. When I however DO use them, it feels so darn good when the conversation is over. You'll feel strong and self-confident, you'll see. See it as personal training ground. What can happen? At WORST, she will say no. Well, that doesn't leave you worse off than you are right now and at least you stood up for yourself. I guarantee you that if she's even a semi-good boss, she'll have a better opinion of you when you do talk to her, even if she says no. There's nothing to loose, only to gain.

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I know you're right. Dag, and thanks. I know I'm just putting it off because I'm afraid of how stupid I'll look. I have to just psych myself up for it. But my boss just got back from vacation today. Don't you think it's better that I wait a couple days for him to get back in the groove? Or should I just get it over with now while he's still feeling that after-vacation calm?

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I may have either just messed up bad, or made a smart move. I can't decide.

I called my employment agency and asked them whether this is a good time to be looking for work, and after talking with my contact there, I was told to just hold off on saying anything until he gets back to me.

So maybe my agent, who is taking 1/3rd of my pay, will actually do something to earn some of that dough and help me avoid an awkward situation. Either that, or it'll be even more awkward now, because I'm not in control of the situation, and now I won't be prepared when my boss comes to me and says, "What the hell? I thought you wanted a position here!?"

Ah, whatever.

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Whew. This thread has gotten complicated. I agree with the others about narrowing down the letter, even removing the personal information-- even though you don't want them to think you've been stringing them along.

Ten, 20, 30, hell, 6 months from now you're going to look back and say "S***, I got worked up over something that could have been simplified and easier on Me.

It's okay to go into your current boss' office scared. Just acknowledge to yourself that you're really uncomfortable. But you know what? So what about being uncomfortable. In the end it'll bolster your confidence for the next boss you have...really kicky, it's okay to be cautious, but you've reached a point where you're ready to take the leap. I know you can do it. Think of having a discussion with your boss as an investment in your future. And, i bet in the end your bioss will appreciate your willingness to disvcuss the matter.

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Kicky--

The cards (and the stars) say that a personal discussion will work in your favor.

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if you talk with your boss first, the call from your agent will not make her think "what the hell?" No matter what you do, i think you owe her (and yourself) that discussion.

then you can report here and we'll give you feedback! it's a good personal growth opportunity. do it!

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life is tought get a helmet. you cant make everyone happy. they would screw you over without a second thought probablly

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What ever happened concerning this, kicky?

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He took my advice and blew the guy... he's a vice president now...

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Actually, I'm still working there as a freelancer, and I haven't had any discussion or even an e-mail exchange with my boss about the situation at all. I am feeling pretty confident that they know I don't want to be permanent, and have therefore decided that they aren't interested in hiring me on anymore. The girl that I work with in this new situation (the stupid blonde twit who is my nemesis, who I've tried to get away from for over a year now but who keeps coming back into my life like a bad penny over and over again, and whose assistant I basically am now, as she is a permanent employee) told me over a few drinks last friday that my boss spoke to her about possibly letting me go, but that she argued for me to stay because she wants me around to help her out.

After hearing that, I made up my mind that I was going to put in my two weeks notice very soon, because I don't really want the decision on whether I stay or go to be ultimately in the hands of this arrogant blonde twit (my nemesis) who has about half my experience and skill. But, the word "recession" has been floating around a lot lately, and that worries me a little. I guess I'm just waiting for the right time.

Maybe that will be monday. Or maybe I'll wait another couple weeks, and see if I can get something else first. Soon though. Very soon.

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why are you having drinks with this bitch then? Has she got a little boner for you? If so, give her the pancake treatment and get her vulnerable and on your side... then milk her for info and maybe f**k her over. You know, keep you friends close but etc. etc.

It's a tough world out there dude.... use your masculine wiles on her. :wink:

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That got me too Bear. Kicky, why are you having drinks with this woman? Was it a group thing or just the two of you?

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Would you hire me back as a freelancer after all this?

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