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Would you hire me back as a freelancer after all this?

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

get your portfolio together then and take a chance dude. the only down side is that in 40 years you'll be dea no matter what you do.

Yep, that is what I'm going to eventually have to do I guess. It's just this matter of somehow extricating myself smoothly from my current position that I'm trying to figure out now.

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ehBeth wrote:

kickycan wrote:
So trying to get new clients without leaving this job would be very very tough, to say the least.

of course it's tough. just do it.

No.

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kickycan wrote:

The long and short of it all is that I want to go back to freelancing here, and eventually find a job in a consumer agency. The only time I was really pretty content here was when I was just freelancing and not involved in this crap about getting hired on as a permanent employee.

Why can't you just tell them this in a more positive way?

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well, the only way how your boss will not think you're wishy-washy is if you actually speak to her, in a face to face meeting about your entire experience there, your goals, your expectations, what you appreciate and what you're lacking.... otherwise she can only guess and may not guess right and will come to conclusions you can't do anything about (unless you talk to her). ask for a meeting.

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Re: Would you hire me back as a freelancer after all this?

kickycan wrote:

If you were my boss and I turned down a permanent position AGAIN after all this back and forth over the past several months, would you ever want to hire me on as even a freelance employee again?

No. I would not have given you as many chances as this person seems to have done. Three by my count. I'd have given you two less.

For heaven's sake don't talk at interviews like you have in your post! I am afraid you come across as a selfish whiner who sees a job primarily in terms of what's in it for you (I know we all do that to a certain extent, but an employer wants to see evidence that you want to contribute something)

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So far this new spot is absolutely horrible. Many people on the account team seem to be pretty new to each other, there is a ton of work, and nobody really seems to have any answers about who is supposed to do what and when. It is very frustrating.

Quote:

there is a ton of work

That's a bad thing? Definitely don't moan about that to prospective employers!

Maybe it would be good if you came up with some answers? Or tried to? Or talked to the boss about what the problems are and how you, the team, and he/she can work together to overcome them?

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There are many other things that also completely suck about this position, but I won't bore you with the details.

See advice at beginning of this post.

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Just trust me, it's not a good situation right now. Maybe it will get better soon, but I'm not into dealing with adversity unnecessarily.

Don't put that on your résumé!

I think there are two kinds of people - those who make things happen, and those to whom things happen. I prefer to hire the first type.

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I'm so bad at leaving jobs on good terms. Help.

Why isn't that a surprise?

Sorry if this comes across pretty negative, but it is meant to be helpful.

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ehBeth wrote:

Why aren't you actively working on getting at least one private client right now?

None of this "oh, it's winter" stuff. A good reason.

I started doing this stuff about two years ago on a freelance basis, thinking that once I got out there and worked with a few companies, I'd get them to like me, and then once the six-month non-compete period ends with the agency who got me the jobs, I'd go back and get freelance gigs on my own with these clients that I'd cultivated. That was my strategy for getting private clients. But I seem to get easily sidetracked from my big goal all the time when new factors are introduced into the situation.

I haven't been actively working on getting closer to my big goal lately because I have been on the fence about this damn job for a while. But now I think I'm almost ready to make that move.

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Contrex, your post was very helpful, actually.

And don't worry, I don't talk like this to my boss, and I'm not stupid enough to whine about my current situation to perspective employers.

As far as your point about being a team player who works together with others to solve problems...a couple years ago, I quit a job that I had worked at for six years. In that job, I also was expected to try to solve things. I tried for six years, and all it got me was more stress and aggravation. And things didn't get better. That was basically the reason I moved on and tried this whole freelance thing. Now why would I want to go through that aggravation all over again? I've been working in this field for quite a while now, and I am pretty good at sizing up these kinds of situations. I think my instincts are solid on this.

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Then what was the point of this thread? If you were a female, you might be accused of causing "drama"

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TTH, my being confident in my ability to size up the situation in this one particular department doesn't preclude my wanting to get input on the situation as a whole, and thus find a better way of leaving this job on a good note.

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Kicky, I know that you know how unwise it would be to just jump out here without a solid client. But it's just about now or never time for you buddy. You're getting older (sorry but it happens to all of us designers) and working fulltime while burning the midnight oil with another client is not going to get easier. If you're seeking to eventually freelance on your own I think you would be wise to stay in your present spot, get your portfolio in order like suggested above, seek other clients, work on new assignments at home, expect to get busy and have to pull some allnighters and work every weekend and every holiday until you've established yourself or have locked down a few clients of your own and then quit your present position and focus on working fulltime from home, your own office.

If that's what you want then my only question is just how badly do you want it? How much are you willing to sacrifice to get it?

As far as your original question, because you are freelance, I'd hire you back. If you're a good designer and meet your deadlines.

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kickycan wrote:

TTH, my being confident in my ability to size up the situation in this one particular department doesn't preclude my wanting to get input on the situation as a whole, and thus find a better way of leaving this job on a good note.

My mistake then. I based my post on reading your posts from the past and you came across as quite a confident person. Your wanting input took me by surprise.

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Re: Would you hire me back as a freelancer after all this?

kickycan wrote:

they'll just figure I'm a flake

...would they be wrong?

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kickycan wrote:

the problem with that is that the work itself isn't anything I really like.

This line jumped out at me. kicky, the mantra for freelance work, even if it's not from this company is: "there's always more."

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TTH wrote:

Then what was the point of this thread? If you were a female, you might be accused of causing "drama"

The point of the thread is he's wrestling with some things he'd like to resolve and he's airing his concerns here. What kicky has mentioned, at least for me, are the kinds of 3 am concerns that do not allow me to fall back to sleep.

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Gala wrote:

kickycan wrote:
the problem with that is that the work itself isn't anything I really like.

This line jumped out at me. kicky, the mantra for freelance work, even if it's not from this company is: "there's always more."

I was just thinking about that. Long-term, this job just isn't the place for me. I know that. I was foolish to consider permanent work here. I got sidetracked. Also, I guess I'm just fearful enough that I worry about finding another job, even though I haven't had any problems doing that in the past. It's hard to get out of that mindset of basically doing whatever you can to become a permanent employee.

I still might consider permanent work somewhere, but the job has to be right, dammit!

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Re: Would you hire me back as a freelancer after all this?

DrewDad wrote:

kickycan wrote:
they'll just figure I'm a flake

...would they be wrong?

As far as work goes, not necessarily.

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eoe wrote:

expect to get busy and have to pull some allnighters and work every weekend and every holiday until you've established yourself or have locked down a few clients of your own and then quit your present position and focus on working fulltime from home, your own office.

If that's what you want then my only question is just how badly do you want it? How much are you willing to sacrifice to get it?

AMEN!

I did 18-hour days, 7-days a week to build stuff on the side for the freedom I want. Now I'm going after it full time.

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Okay, I wrote this little thing I'm thinking maybe I could e-mail to my studio manager.

What do you guys think of it? Do I come off alright in this? Would it help my cause at all? Suggestions welcome.

Dear ----,

We spoke about the possibility of a permanent position recently, which is why I feel I should inform you of a decision I've made. While I do enjoy working here at ---- in general, I would rather freelance for a while before I jump back into a permanent position anywhere. I'm sorry about this last minute change of heart, but it has been a very tough decision for me, and I've gone back and forth on it several times over the past few months. There are various reasons why I've made this decision, but in a nutshell, it comes down to the fact that I would like to be free to pursue other options when I feel the time is right. I have been here for a while now, and to be honest, the only time I have really felt comfortable is when I was just freelancing over in the bullpen* with ----, with no thoughts of being hired on as an employee. I hope you understand, and I am hoping that I can stay on as a freelancer here as long as you need me, and that in the future I might be considered as a solid option when next you are in need of a good freelance production artist. I am willing to stay on in my current spot for the next few weeks if you need me to, but after that, I would prefer, if possible, to go back to my old place in the bullpen.

Thank you,

Kicky

*the "bullpen" is a nickname for the area with all the general freelancers who just work on everything and aren't on any specific account.

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Be honest about why you don't want the permenant position.

...the team seems poorly structured and appears to lack strong leadership. Goal setting or individual team members is non existent. I don't feel I am the right person to provide the leadership required. These team problems can be fixed in time but I have been down this road before and don't wish to do so again.

Finding your own clients and maintaining them will be far more stressful than working full time for an agency until you become established.

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Sorry, Kicky, but that really does sound flaky. Too much angst, too wishy-washy.

You need to sound more decisive. Be concise. Here's an example:

Dear ----,

Our last conversation gave me a great deal to think about. I enjoy working here at ----, but I have decided that I would rather continue freelancing for you than accept a permanent position. In fact, I greatly enjoyed the time I spent in the bullpen and feel I did excellent work there. I wonder if it might be possible for me to return to that position (area?).

Thank you for considering me,

Kicky

If they want to talk about it further, they'll ask. Then you can tell them in person that they don't currently have a permanent position you're interested in. I wouldn't put that part in writing, though.

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