The greatest irony...

...then the mind can go beyond and find out, through meditation, through a deep, quiet silence, if there is such a thing as reality. Therefore a religious mind is a mind that is constantly aware, sensitive, attentive, so that it goes beyond itself into a dimension where there is no time at all.

real life wrote:

Chai wrote:

Seriously, for me, it's about energy. Were did it originate? Can't be destroyed. It's eternal.

If matter/energy has existed since eternity past, why hasn't entropy taken the expected toll?

And what would the expected toll be real life?




The science of thermodynamics is founded on two principles, both of which involve the concept of energy. The first principle asserts that energy is conserved, i.e., energy can neither be created nor destroyed. The second principle asserts that the overall distribution of energy tends to become more uniform, never less uniform. These two principles are called the first and second laws of thermodynamics. Laws # 1 and 2

While the entropy in the universe is continuously increasing, the energy of the universe is constant.

Energy does not disappear real life, just changes.

real life

The information you ask of me is already given in the very post you quote from. Apply yourself instead of asking questions that are already answered.

Krishnamurti: Sir, what is religion? Actually, what is religion? First of all to find out what is religion we must negate what it is not. Belief is not religion, and the authority which the churches, the organized religions assume, is not religion. In that there is all the sense of obedience, conformity, acceptance, the hierarchical approach to life. The division between the Protestant, the Catholic, the Hindu, the Moslem, that's not religion. When you negate all that, which means you are no longer a Hindu, no longer a Catholic, no longer belonging to any sectarian outlook, then your mind questions, asks what is true religion? This is free from their ritual, without their masters, without their Saviour; all that is not religion. When the mind discards that, intelligently, because it has seen that it's not religion, then it can ask what is religion. Religion is not what I think, but religion is the sense of comprehension of the totality of existence, in which there is no division between you and me. Then if there is that quality of goodness which is virtue, real virtue not the phony virtue of society, but real virtue, then the mind can go beyond and find out, through meditation, through a deep, quiet silence, if there is such a thing as reality. Therefore a religious mind is a mind that is constantly aware, sensitive, attentive, so that it goes beyond itself into a dimension where there is no time at all.

So if energy is 'eternal' then a state of maximum entropy should have been reached.

But what I meant was that to suspend one's own intellect is not a very intelligent thing to do.

.......theistic water wings.

What matters in any dynamic system, whether it be open or closed, are the patterns of relationships between components, not the components themselves. Each component is bounded with others by the rules of relationship, i.e. our expectancies

What exactly (in your view) constitutes 'organized religion' (which you oppose) ?

Any belief that urges you to suspend your objections if you cannot understand it with the justification that we were not meant to understand it, only believe it.

real life wrote:

So if energy is 'eternal' then a state of maximum entropy should have been reached.

Why should that state have been reached?

According to who? You? How did you reach that conclusion? Or, are you just expressing what "should" happen.

You're the one placing limits, not I.

real life.

You haven't got a clue what Krisnamurti is talking about. It is not a question of "practice" or "audience participation". The listener merely onvited to ask questions of the "self"....to observe that self in its conditioned mode...and to realize that this is a preblematic mode common to all selves. Therein lies the possibility of impersonal transcendence.

Unless you are prepared to attempt such observation, which is far from easy, you have about as much idea of the experience as a non-swimmer has of swimming. You will remain like an incredulous pool-side fearful and spectator who won't believe the water can support you.

Chai wrote:

real life wrote:

So if energy is 'eternal' then a state of maximum entropy should have been reached.

Why should that state have been reached?

According to who? You? How did you reach that conclusion? Or, are you just expressing what "should" happen.

You're the one placing limits, not I.

What would prevent the universe from reaching a state of maximum entropy if it had existed 'eternally' (i.e. not just a 'very long time') ?

real life wrote:

What exactly (in your view) constitutes 'organized religion' (which you oppose) ?

Ok, I'll indulge you once more. With a spoon this time

Organized religion is any belief that is advertised and offered to people as a solution to all their problems. Any belief that urges you to suspend your objections if you cannot understand it with the justification that we were not meant to understand it, only believe it.

That sort of "religion" is an alternative attractive to those who cannot deal with the suspense of a true spiritual quest, and as such it has more in common with drugs and other escapes from reality than true religion.

All in my (not so) humble opinion, of course. :wink: