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Mon 24 Dec, 2007 08:04 pm
Jesus, the way he is portrayed in the bible, was a free-thinking and intelligent individual. He was enlightened and had a well thought out answer for just about any question he was ever asked.
Why then do those who look up to him seek to be the exact oposite?
They are rarely free-thinking. They rely on the answers Jesus gave. They rarely excersice their intelligence, at least not where I can witness it. They are not particularly enlightened, but resigned to believing that they can never understand fully anyway. And they can never answer questions about their beliefs that make any sense to someone not inclined to just believe blindly. All in my experience, of course.
You'd think that if Jesus wanted the world to become a better place he'd want people to become more like him.
Free-thinking
Intelligent
Enlightened
.......
He was critical of established ideas.
In believing that one should be like Jesus, one realises that Christianity doesn't work, therefore terminating the cause of disbelief. It's a paradox of sorts.
Of course, one could believe that one should be like Jesus without also believing that he was a God-man messiah.
I was going to give an answer about why I give God's word to people in answering certain things, but to be honest with you, I find your post to be very offensive and I am assuming it would just be a waste of my time anyway.
By the way, Merry Christmas everyone!
Re: The greatest irony...
Cyracuz wrote:Jesus, the way he is portrayed in the bible, was a free-thinking and intelligent individual. He was enlightened and had a well thought out answer for just about any question he was ever asked.
Why then do those who look up to him seek to be the exact oposite?
They are rarely free-thinking. They rely on the answers Jesus gave. They rarely excersice their intelligence, at least not where I can witness it. They are not particularly enlightened, but resigned to believing that they can never understand fully anyway. And they can never answer questions about their beliefs that make any sense to someone not inclined to just believe blindly. All in my experience, of course.
You'd think that if Jesus wanted the world to become a better place he'd want people to become more like him.
Free-thinking
Intelligent
Enlightened
.......
I thnk that Jesus would be absolutely disgusted if he were aware of the job that organized religion has done on him.
Re: The greatest irony...
Cyracuz wrote:Why then do those who look up to him seek to be the exact oposite?
.......
Because there are more sheep than goats in the world.
It's easier to rely on (a) what someone else said and/or (b) someone elses interpretation of what someone else said.
I suppose I'd be offended too if I were a sheep, and someone pointed it out to me.
because when people exercise intelligence, they don't resort to religion.
Let me make a friendly ammendment. Perfectly intelligent people actively choose to willingly suspend their intelligence during participation in religion.
Any time I hear someone explain a paradox by saying, "if we had all the answers it wouldn't be faith," I want to vomit. That is actively discarding intelligent thought in favor of accepting Constantine's bible that was written by politicians 200 years after Christ's death.
Arella Mae wrote:How would any of you like it if I or anyone said something like "atheists are idiots because they don't believe in God. They merely parrot another "free thinker's" previous thoughts and rarely use their own brain? Oh and all my own experience of course.
Trust me, atheists get that all the time. Christians complain about being persecuted for their beliefs, but all they seem to do is throw rocks at non-christians, which is in direct contradiction to one of your main doctrines of not judging. As a whole, you suck at it.
If christians could see a tenth of the hypocrisy they call "faith" they might stop being so self-righteous. I'm not an atheist, but christians drive me to the edge of it.
Arella Mae
Perhaps my wording was brutal. But what I meant was that to suspend one's own intellect is not a very intelligent thing to do.
I do not discredit faith. Even the most stone cold atheist goes on faith from time to time, even if he wants to admit it or not. But that faith is a means to endure until understanding can be reached. Then he will get off that ride.
The faith christians place in their book is considered a permanent solution, and that's where I object.
Exactly.
It is not that either atheists or christians are idiots.
It's that, in certain portions of their lives, I see believers in any faith, not just christians, willing to totally hand over the choice of what they are supposed to believe, to others.
This is not restricted to religious beliefs by any means. There are very few people who are not sheep in some area of their lives.
Taking child rearing. You might be a very competent parent, but in one or more areas, you believe you should rear your child in a way that makes no sense. When examined, it's because that's the way your family, community, etc does it. No other reason.
In love relations. Some people whose lives are together in other ways, cannot shake the idea of finding this forever, romantic, prince charming love that simply does not exist. At some point, they gave up making up their own minds, and bought into another way of thinking.
My beliefs aren't perfect, but they are mine, not someone elses interpretation.
Cyracruz,
Thank you for saying that. I do appreciate it.
And I am sure that atheists do get that a lot also. To be honest with you, I have heard the most horrid things said to non-believers from some claiming to be Christians and I will never understand it. The world calls for tolerance but there is so much intolerance on all sides.
I do want to say one thing though just to make it clear. I do not feel persecuted for my faith. Sure people get a little rough sometimes and their words can hurt but I don't consider it persecution.
Cyracuz why wouldn't Christians place so much faith in a book of God's word? We believed it to be the inerrant Word of God and as far as this Christian is concerned, God's word is final.
Now whether you or anyone else finds that rational, intelligent, etc., is always going to be a point to debate.
Re: The greatest irony...
Cyracuz wrote:Jesus, the way he is portrayed in the bible, was a free-thinking and intelligent individual. He was enlightened and had a well thought out answer for just about any question he was ever asked.
Why then do those who look up to him seek to be the exact oposite?
They are rarely free-thinking. They rely on the answers Jesus gave. They rarely excersice their intelligence, at least not where I can witness it. They are not particularly enlightened, but resigned to believing that they can never understand fully anyway. And they can never answer questions about their beliefs that make any sense to someone not inclined to just believe blindly. All in my experience, of course.
You'd think that if Jesus wanted the world to become a better place he'd want people to become more like him.
Free-thinking
Intelligent
Enlightened
.......
If Jesus was, as you say, a free thinker, why would he constantly refer to the scriptures in answer to his questioners?
An intelligent person does not reject ideas simply because they are inconvenient.
neo
In the bible, does jesus refer to scripture?
Cyracruz - sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't
Side thought:
Arella Mae wrote:non-believers
I find this term to be very interesting, because it means a lot of different things based on context.
A Christian may be refering to an Atheist as a "non-believer" because of what they believe and not what they don't believe. By this standard a Christian could additionally be concidered and accurated labeled a "non-believer" be cause they don't believe in evolution or BB.
But really only one party chooses this wording. Why not address people for what they believe and not what they don't believe?
T
K
O
Cyracuz,
You say elsewhere that you (and all) are God in the holistic sense of being part of some "creative principle". If this is the sense in which you interpret Jesus' own alleged claims you need to consider whether such a non-dualistic concept requires a leap of intellect beyond the capacity of most, and dysfunctional to the self integrity of those who call themselves "believers" in the normal (dualistic) sense.
fresco wrote:Cyracuz,
You say elsewhere that you (and all) are God in the holistic sense of being part of some "creative principle". If this is the sense in which you interpret Jesus' own alleged claims you need to consider whether such a non-dualistic concept requires a leap of intellect beyond the capacity of most, and dysfunctional to the self integrity of those who call themselves "believers" in the normal (dualistic) sense.
Maybe instead he just needs to read the Bible through a few times to become familiar with it's contents before he makes assumptions about what it does and doesn't say.
Cyracuz wrote:In the bible, does jesus refer to scripture?
C's characterization of Christians (as being 'unlike Jesus') seems to be based on what he wishes the Bible to say, not what it says.
Cyracuz apparently knows very little of the behavior of Jesus.
Of course your assumption is that 'most believers' lack the intelligence to understand a different (your?) POV.
Just because one doesn't share a POV with you doesn't mean he can't understand it.
Two different things.
But then, you would've missed out on your opportunity to parade your intelligence by denigrating others.
Arella Mae wrote:non-believers
I find this term to be very interesting, because it means a lot of different things based on context.
A Christian may be refering to an Atheist as a "non-believer" because of what they believe and not what they don't believe. By this standard a Christian could additionally be concidered and accurated labeled a "non-believer" be cause they don't believe in evolution or BB.
But really only one party chooses this wording. Why not address people for what they believe and not what they don't believe?
T
K
O[/quote]
I do not use the term in a derogatory manner I assure you. I have called people atheist's before and was corrected. I use non-believer because I only know they aren't Christian (by either their profession or what they post).
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