The greatest irony...

Arella

We will never agree, because you suspend reason.

And we are far apart in our thinking. I think, you don't. You just feel your way through it. Hence terms like "I know that I know that I know that it is NOT founded on a lie". Because it feels right? You certainly provide no reasonable considerations.

Where's the rational that ineffability invalidates?

Arella and real life,

Try to understand this....the term "stupid" is involved with a person's "self esteem", but the position from which a de-personalised holistic "God" can be understood is one in which "self esteem" is cast to the winds. There is no "self" from that position. The "leap of intellect" is one beyond the trivialities of "selves" and their parochial "beliefs".

And it is from this position that phrases like "love another as you love yourself" and "love your enemy" take on a different aspect. They are pointers to a non-dualistic transcendence of those psychological divisions between "self" and "other" which are the source of conflict.

fresco wrote:

You say elsewhere that you (and all) are God in the holistic sense of being part of some "creative principle". If this is the sense in which you interpret Jesus' own alleged claims you need to consider whether such a non-dualistic concept requires a leap of intellect beyond the capacity of most, and dysfunctional to the self integrity of those who call themselves "believers" in the normal (dualistic) sense.

I do not know if it requires a leap of intellect beyond the capacity of most. But it does require a different mind-set from the start. One that isn't taught by the bible, even though the character named Jesus in the book touches on it.

And Real Life
My assumption isn't that most believers lack the intelligence to understand different points of view. My assumption is, and it holds true so far, that most believers are unwilling to consider trying to understand alternative points of view.

Cyracuz wrote:

fresco wrote:

You say elsewhere that you (and all) are God in the holistic sense of being part of some "creative principle". If this is the sense in which you interpret Jesus' own alleged claims you need to consider whether such a non-dualistic concept requires a leap of intellect beyond the capacity of most, and dysfunctional to the self integrity of those who call themselves "believers" in the normal (dualistic) sense.

I do not know if it requires a leap of intellect beyond the capacity of most. But it does require a different mind-set from the start. One that isn't taught by the bible, even though the character named Jesus in the book touches on it.

And Real Life
My assumption isn't that most believers lack the intelligence to understand different points of view. My assumption is, and it holds true so far, that most believers are unwilling to consider trying to understand alternative points of view.

Most of the people who hang on to the Bible like a life raft and trumpet their belief simply can't tolerate other POVs. They need what they consider to be an iron-clad How To Book to get through life. Opposing POVs tear their world apart. I think this is why opposition is met with stonewalling. Of course, this doesn't apply to all religionists---just the overwhelming majority.

real life,

This thing I call "me" makes no claims to a permanent state of transcendence. It does claim to have had fleeting insights into that state which allows it to dismiss organized religion and "scriptures" as palliative answers the human cognitive burden of anticipating its mortality and cosmological insignificance. Your own "feistiness" on this issue simply means that you (i.e. your self integrity) has a need for such palliatives. This is relatively harmless at the psychological level but problematic and pernicious as the social level.

You should go to China and file a report.

Your attempted diversion from the topic smells like fear.

You'd think that if Jesus wanted the world to become a better place he'd want people to become more like him.
Free-thinking
Intelligent
Enlightened

.......

Why is your transcedence so fleeting?

If doing away with 'self' is simply a matter of deciding to do so, then what's the hang-up?

neo

What's your point? Love, all forms of affection, are human qualities, not christian qualities.

neo

What's your point? Love, all forms of affection, are human qualities, not christian qualities.