The greatest irony...

Cryacuz, understood. That's why I will not engage him or her.

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Quote:

Belief is to meditational awareness as darkness is to a flame

Hi Fresco, do you mean attachment to ones beliefs?

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Chai wrote:

It is not possible to have finite entropy in an infinite universe.

apparantly I misread your other statement.

entropy will continue into infinity.

Energy will remain constant.

That's a view that puts you at odds with a fair share of the scientific community, is it not?

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vikorr,

I meant that in the sense that "attachment" to beliefs constitutes aspects of "self", and meditational awareness transcends "self".

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Cyracuz wrote:

JL

A long time ago I realized that real life will only acknowledge what he can argue against or what he agrees with.....

I suppose you think that I should defend positions that are not my own? Laughing

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real life,

JLN would have tried to point out that what you call "you" IS "your position" which shifts like the weather. It is this act of self observation which corresponds with the "leap of intellect" I mentioned previously. Without that awareness we might as well be trying to describe color to a blind man.

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fresco wrote:

real life,

JLN would have tried to point out

Wow you can read minds? That's freaky. I'm impressed. Seriously I am.

What am I thinking now? C'mon. It's not hard.

I'll give a hint. It starts with "bu" and ends with "it".

"Butter beats margarine on a biscuit" You're right. Boy you are really good.

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fresco wrote:

what you call "you" IS "your position" which shifts like the weather. It is this act of self observation which corresponds with the "leap of intellect" I mentioned previously. Without that awareness we might as well be trying to describe color to a blind man.

And this is scientifically testable, verified and accepted by the scientific community; or it's something you just believe without proof?

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No "leaps" today then. Smile

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It is one thing to observe one's own behavior (physical and mental) and state " I know my own actions and thoughts"

It is quite another to claim properties for the universe, time, matter and energy while offering no evidentiary basis for it.

To do so is to claim omniscience.

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Quote:

It is one thing to observe one's own behavior (physical and mental) and state " I know my own actions and thoughts"

.....but that is precisely what you have not done otherwise you would have observed the shifts and inconsistencies.

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fresco wrote:

vikorr,

I meant that in the sense that "attachment" to beliefs constitutes aspects of "self",

Hi Fresco, once this was explained to me, it seemed rather self evident (except that it's obviously not, or it wouldn't need explaining). An interesting concept. And something we agree on Very Happy

It also seems that understanding it logically is only the first step, and perhaps that the 'end/beginning' is knowing it intrinsically. I've been fascinated by it ever since I first comprehended it.

Quote:

and meditational awareness transcends "self".

Do you believe the word 'meditational' is necessary? I personally would not have thought so, and have just left it as 'awareness'.

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real life wrote:

Chai wrote:

No.

and as JLN sagely advised, I will not engage you anymore.

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vikorr,

There is a certain quality to the "awareness" of which I speak which involves observing "it"....its circling thoughts, its five senses operating, etc, which can best be described as "meditational".

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From wikipedia:

Quote:

The word meditation comes from the Latin meditatio, which originally indicated every type of physical or intellectual exercise, then later evolved into the more specific meaning "contemplation."

There is no true separation between the observing entity and the object of observation. Observation can also be described as something like "internal communication" meaning communication, but with no clear parties communicating with eachother.

And so everything I observe takes on the qualities of my "self" for the duration of the observation, as I take on the qualities of what I observe. Not physically, of course.
My ability to see results in the objects ability to be seen, and the other way around.

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Chai wrote:

real life wrote:
Chai wrote:

No.

and as JLN sagely advised, I will not engage you anymore.

It's just as well, since it took three posts to get you to understand a one word response.

Have a happy new year, Chai.

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First of all, having faith does not necessarily means not being intelligent. It's true that many religious people just follow what other people think, for example their preacher, and are afraid to contradict because they believe they know nothing and the preacher knows better. But this is not always the case, there very intelligent people who are christians who look for their own answer and are "free-thinkers" as you say. Religion is not meant for dumb people is just that dumb people become religious just as there are dumb people who become atheists. You can't just take a bunch of people and have them represent an entire religion. I myself am christian and I hate to see those people who call themselves christian acting like hypocrital morons and then see other people criticizing that religion because they saw those people.

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I fail to understand the reason why otherwise intelligent people would want to associate their personal spiritual quest with thousands of years of bloodshed, oppression and lies by naming themselves christians.

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I would think that a proper definition of Christian would be a prerequisite for such a statement. There were no Christians in the Old Testament.

I would think that the same, perhaps, could be said for those who call themselves Republicans. See how silly it is?

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Cyracuz wrote:

I fail to understand the reason why otherwise intelligent people would want to associate their personal spiritual quest with thousands of years of bloodshed, oppression and lies by naming themselves christians.

You are aware that use is not the same as misuse, aren't you?

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The greatest irony...

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