Buger King, Tomatoes and Modern day slavery.

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This story makes me very upset.

Migrant workers in Florida are being forced to work in sub-human conditions picking tomatoes for almost nothing. There is a wage slavery where the tomato growers charge the workers for everything so as they work to pay off the "debt" they rack up more debt they can never pay.

There is a movement to raise the wages for these tomato and fruit-pickers in Florida-- the goal is to raise the price of tomatoes by 1 cent a pound (I would pay for this gladly) with this money to go to the workers in the field. But the growers association is blocking it by threatening a $10,000 fine for any farmer who pays this. You can't have individuals growers having a little compassion making everyone else look bad, can you?

Burger King gets the evil corporation award by siding with the growers (you don't want 1 cent per pound of tomatoes in your burgers raising the price of your big mac would you?).

But now this.... three of these workers who had been beaten by their employers and had to escape from the locked trailer where they were kept. Got that... beatings, imprisonment, forced labor-- this is nothing less then modern day slavery in the US.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3263500.ece

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Quote:

Burger King gets the evil corporation award by siding with the growers (you don't want 1 cent per pound of tomatoes in your burgers raising the price of your big mac would you?)

(mcdonald's sells big macs; burger king offers the whopper...)

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Seems like every 18 months or so, ebrown and I are destined to agree on something. Swell. Now I can relax for another year and a half.

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There's similar stuff going on in Puglia (southern Italy), with whatever article I read mentioning organized crime involvement. Let that be an analogy...

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Re: Buger King, Tomatoes and Modern day slavery.

ebrown_p wrote:

This story makes me very upset.

Migrant workers in Florida are being forced to work in sub-human conditions picking tomatoes for almost nothing. There is a wage slavery where the tomato growers charge the workers for everything so as they work to pay off the "debt" they rack up more debt they can never pay.

There is a movement to raise the wages for these tomato and fruit-pickers in Florida-- the goal is to raise the price of tomatoes by 1 cent a pound (I would pay for this gladly) with this money to go to the workers in the field. But the growers association is blocking it by threatening a $10,000 fine for any farmer who pays this. You can't have individuals growers having a little compassion making everyone else look bad, can you?

Burger King gets the evil corporation award by siding with the growers (you don't want 1 cent per pound of tomatoes in your burgers raising the price of your big mac would you?).

But now this.... three of these workers who had been beaten by their employers and had to escape from the locked trailer where they were kept. Got that... beatings, imprisonment, forced labor-- this is nothing less then modern day slavery in the US.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3263500.ece

How is raising consumer prices going to raise the wages of the tomato pickers? The problem isn't with how much we pay for tomatoes but rather the willingness and ability of the farm owners to take advantage of a vulnerable labor force. The solution is to enforce the existing minimum wage laws.

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The point is, if they were to pay the workers a penny more a pound, I would be more than happy to pay a penny more per pound in the store.

This means I would absorb the additional cost to the companies and this would not affect the profits of any of the greedy bastards growing tomatoes in Florida-- or the heartless folks at Burger King using them to make their flavorless, greasy hamburgers.

((As Region kindly pointed out, I don't eat Burger King's crappy products anyway.... how much do they get for these "Whoppers"? ))

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ebrown_p wrote:

The point is, if they were to pay the workers a penny more a pound, I would be more than happy to pay a penny more per pound in the store.

Why not simply find some tomato pickers and give them your extra pennies? Why should the rest of us have to pay for your altruism?

Quote:

But what guarantee do you have that everyone's extra penny a pound would go to the pickers?

Furthermore, are the tomato pickers being paid the legally mandated wage? Even if agricultural workers are paid piecemeal- based on what they harvest their employer must make up any difference if the workers don't harvest enough to make the federal minimum wage. Any worker who cannot work fast enough to harvest enough for their piecemeal pay to equal the federal minimum wage is fired. Also consider the fact that due to the stupidity of liberals downstate Florida has a constitutionally-mandated super minimum wage that is at least $1 (or it maybe $2) over the federal minimum wage.

Quote:

((As Region kindly pointed out, I don't eat Burger King's crappy products anyway.... how much do they get for these "Whoppers"? ))

If you don't eat at Burger King, how can you legitimately comment on the quality of Burger King's products?

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Question, are these legal migrant workers or illegal immigrants? If they are legal, how come the laws are not applied, in terms of working conditions and minimum wage laws? If they are illegal, how come the company isn't punished, and they are sent home so they won't be slaves here anymore?

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Re: Buger King, Tomatoes and Modern day slavery.

ebrown_p wrote:

This story makes me very upset.

Migrant workers in Florida are being forced to work in sub-human conditions picking tomatoes for almost nothing. There is a wage slavery where the tomato growers charge the workers for everything so as they work to pay off the "debt" they rack up more debt they can never pay.

There is a movement to raise the wages for these tomato and fruit-pickers in Florida-- the goal is to raise the price of tomatoes by 1 cent a pound (I would pay for this gladly) with this money to go to the workers in the field. But the growers association is blocking it by threatening a $10,000 fine for any farmer who pays this. You can't have individuals growers having a little compassion making everyone else look bad, can you?

Burger King gets the evil corporation award by siding with the growers (you don't want 1 cent per pound of tomatoes in your burgers raising the price of your big mac would you?).

But now this.... three of these workers who had been beaten by their employers and had to escape from the locked trailer where they were kept. Got that... beatings, imprisonment, forced labor-- this is nothing less then modern day slavery in the US.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3263500.ece

I've read this article three times now and am only able to find assertions that 14 farm workers have been kept in a state of slavery. Clearly this is 14 too many, and those responsible should suffer the full weight of the Law, but America should be ashamed?

The vast majority of fruit and vegatble pickers in this country are illegal aliens. I don't want them here. Make them go home and the only ones left to pick produce will be American citizens and they will demand and get higher wages. This will mean I will have to pay higher prices for produce. That's fine by me.

Burger King is hardly siding with growers who imprison their workers. That is a ridiculous charge.

The notion that buyers like Burger King and MacDonalds willing to pay 1 cent more per pound of tomatoes will perforce mean better wages and conditions for pickers is ludicrous.

Companies that have agreed to pay the extra cent are simply looking for PR benefits. They can pay the extra cent but they cannot ensure that it goes to the benefit of the workers.

Requiring buyers to determine if growers are exploiting their workers will require an increase in costs far beyond a penny a pound of tomatoes.

There is a tremendous difference between companies that outsource manufactoring labor to regions where it is understood that low costs come through exploitation of workers, and buying produce grown in America for a penny less a pound.

Illegal aliens are exploited because they are illegal. The answer is to police the utilization of the illegal workforce and stem the flow of illegal aliens. This will, no doubt, result in higher prices for some products and services in America, but it's time for Americans to join their money to their mouths.

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Quote:

There is a tremendous difference between companies that outsource manufactoring labor to regions where it is understood that low costs come through exploitation of workers, and buying produce grown in America for a penny less a pound.

No, There isn't a tremendous difference between the two (as this story demonstrates).

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ebrown_p wrote:

((As Region kindly pointed out, I don't eat Burger King's crappy products anyway.... how much do they get for these "Whoppers"? ))

(((couldn't find a price list online, but i believe the last time i bought one i paid between 2 and 3 dollars for a basic whopper [no cheese]...)))

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Region Philbis wrote:

ebrown_p wrote:
((As Region kindly pointed out, I don't eat Burger King's crappy products anyway.... how much do they get for these "Whoppers"? ))

(((couldn't find a price list online, but i believe the last time i bought one i paid between 2 and 3 dollars for a basic whopper [no cheese]...)))

Since at least May 2005 the Burger Kings in my part of the country have had a promotion whereby you take an automated phone survey and then get a free Whopper when you purchase a drink and French fries. Getting small fries and a medium drink and getting cheese on the Whopper will run you about $3.50.

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Well, it's not an isolated case by American companies :

edit : link not working, but just look up something like "America baseball costa rica working conditions" and you'll find articles on it.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Quote:

There is a tremendous difference between companies that outsource manufactoring labor to regions where it is understood that low costs come through exploitation of workers, and buying produce grown in America for a penny less a pound.

No, There isn't a tremendous difference between the two (as this story demonstrates).

As the story demonstrates?

The story demonstrates that a relatively few migrant workers have been treated very badly. The story demonstrates that Burger King is not willing to make what is an essentially hollow gesture and declare they are willing to pay a penny more per pound for tomatoes.

If you really believe that the mistreatment of even 1,000 illegal immigrant farm workers reduces world price of tomatoes by one cent, you don't have much of a grasp on economics. If you think that paying one cent more per pound of tomatoes will eliminate mistreatment of these workers, you don't have much of a grasp on reality. The bastards who are imprisoning these workers are not doing so because their businesses will otherwise fail and their families starve. Put another penny per pond in their pockets and they will just be that much more enriched. They will not stand out in their fields and cry to the heavens "Thank you Lord for making Burger King pay a penny more per pound of tomatoes! Now I can free my imprisoned workers and stop beating them."

These workers are exploited because they are illegal aliens. This sort of despicable behavior isn't directed at workers who are American citizens.

I am content with spending more for produce and Whoppers if that is a result of cleaning up our illegal immigration mess. I am not willing to pay more for some silly notion that the people who take my money will voluntarily pass it down to the poor worker.

Trying to lay the blame for abuse of illegal immigrant workers on Burger King is ridiculous.

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Absolutely. No question about that.

They would put the illegal immigrants into feather beds and beg them to pick a tomato every now and again if the buyer isn't bothered about the price.

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Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The story demonstrates that Burger King is not willing to make what is an essentially hollow gesture and declare they are willing to pay a penny more per pound for tomatoes.

Suppose BK were to make this gesture. The price of tomatoes varies with the seasons, so how would BK know which penny per pound is going to the migrants when BK's price goes up or down.

About 5-8 years ago there was a story in the local news about a similar situation just a little way's south of my part of the state. The workers in this case were homeless people whom the growers had recruited from off the streets and from local homeless shelters. The workers ended up in debt because they were buying their employers' beer and cigarettes.

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Finn,

You are missing the point.

There are two sides to illegal immigration. There are the illegal people themselves-- who in general are poor families who weren't born with the privileges you were born with. On the other side are wealthy companies profiting from exploiting the misfortune of others and well-off Americans who want the cheapest of everything.

Conservatives... when they see the wealthy exploiting and mistreating the vulnerable-- seem to think that attacking the vulnerable is a solution to the problem.

This is nothing less than perverse.

There are two separate issues on the immigration debate... there is the question of whether more workers are needed, and many people disagree with this.

But for God's sake... if Americans and American companies are going to be benefiting from the hard work of people in the fields... it is sick to not be willing to pay for it.

The penny a pound raise for these workers is important... and it is enforceable. It is easy to account for (in fact the industry mandates wages to the point that it will fine farmers who pay any more than the going rate). So saying that it won't get to the workers is simply incorrect (as workers and their advocates know what they are being paid).

You want it both ways.... you obviously want low prices... and will even whine about one penny.

You will coddle the Americans for hiring people desperate enough to work in these conditions. How many executives in these industries face any jail time (compared to their employees who are jailed, separated from their families, deported with long bars from reentering the country).

The system is designed to make sure there are workers who are kept vulnerable.

You keep attacking the immigrants... the companies know they will always be able to bring more in-- and as long as people like you insist that their workers have no rights, these bastards (with your support) will keep making obscene profits exploiting them.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Conservatives... when they see the wealthy exploiting and mistreating the vulnerable-- seem to think that attacking the vulnerable is a solution to the problem.

Don't confuse conservatives with libertarians. As a conservative I have called for enforcing the federal and state minimum wage laws and I gather that this is the same sentiment of other conservatives here as well.

You, on the other hand, do not understand human nature (like any good liberal or libertarian). If the growers are not now obeying the law, what makes you think they would honor any agreement with BK or any other consumer who agrees to pay an extra penny per pound so the pickers can have higher wages?

Quote:

The penny a pound raise for these workers is important... and it is enforceable.

Then why aren't existing minimum wage laws being enforced already?

Quote:

It is easy to account for (in fact the industry mandates wages to the point that it will fine farmers who pay any more than the going rate).

If it is so easy, why not make the growers fork over the extra penny per pound out of their profits?

You don't realize how ridiculous you sound.

Buger King, Tomatoes and Modern day slavery.

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