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Roger Clemens to Be Named in Mitchell Report

 
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 10:27 am
rojjah may not have a third ear coming out of his forehead, but his nose is getting longer and longer...
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 10:30 am
So Roger decided to go the "lie like a sonofabitch" route. The guy has balls like an elephant.
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Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 10:45 am
And to think most sports fans had no clue what perjury meant til recently...
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 11:20 am
He's an idiot.

I mean, I never realized until his informative interview, that steroids & HGH will turn your tendons to dust.

Just a quick fix. There's no athletes that have taken them over periods of years and years. Right.

Not sure why he's saying anything at all. Best thing to do would be to use "no comment."
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 06:14 pm
If I were his lawyer, I would be beating him with a fungo bat. Then I would quit and give him my bill.

Essentially what he's done is totally throw any case he's got straight into the crapper and cut off his attorney's hands in the process. As for his defamation case, it seems like little more than posturing as he is a public figure and, under The NY Times vs. Sullivan, his chances of winning that are minor anyway. Also, him bitching that to file a lawsuit would be a waste of money is laughable coming from a big leaguer, particularly one paid not as a benchwarmer but as a star, and for several years. Roger can well afford a lawyer and complaining about the cost just makes him look chintzy.

The third ear/tendons turn to dust statements are absurd and make him look like an idiot at best and a liar at worst and, most likely, like a bit of both. What he does not get is that Mitchell did not gather information in a vacuum. Mitchell was looking for as good a stack of evidence as he could get.

Whenever you're dealing with unsubstantiated statements, consider the following; what is the purpose if a person is lying? And what's in it for them if they tell the truth?

For McNamee (do I have the name right?), it is in his best interests to tell the truth (or at least the facts to the best of his knowledge) as he was under a plea agreement already, with the condition that he name names. He had named plenty of names by the time Clemens came up. Adding Clemens, if there was a mistake of fact or no way to substantiate, was not in McNamee's best interests as he would have gone to jail if his naming names turned out to be perjury. Tossing Clemens onto the pile, unless there was ample reason to do so, would have been the acme of foolishness for McNamee. The man (M.) is not going to act against his own personal best interests. His statements are self-serving by definition, but there are cancelled checks, receipts and phone records (albeit not specifically in the Clemens matter) and those really add to the reliability of his statements.

For Pettitte, it is also in his best interests to tell the truth, to come clean about the two specified incidents and move on. Pettitte, I suspect, would like to play again, and so this is the best and easiest way to accomplish that. It's also not in Pettitte's best interest, if he is innocent, to lie and claim he was guilty. Who would he be protecting? McNamee? He has neither cause nor history to do so. I see Pettitte's statements as being a bit self-serving but essentially reliable.

For Clemens, though, it is in his best interests to deny everything, and it is in his best interests even to perjure himself (assuming it got that far, and assuming he really was not telling the truth) in order to save his reputation and future Hall induction. It would not be in his best interests to come clean as that would potentially put him right into a Pete Rose situation, e. g. Hall-worthy but left out. Since Clemens should deny whether that's the truth or not (and, as we saw, every single one of his statements was self-serving), the question is about picking through the tangle and try to get at some truth.

1) He claims he knew nothing about what was going on with Pettitte. Pettitte, his buddy in both Texas and NY. I doubt that Clemens was totally in the dark. Score one for possible lying, although this isn't a big one.
2) Other McNamee statements have been corroborated, including Pettitte's admission. Pettitte would not have wanted to hurt his buddy by backing him into a corner. Of course Pettitte will do what is best for Pettitte (which includes confessing) but he does shore up McNamee, who is saying things in polar opposite to what Clemens is saying. Score another for possible lying, and this one is a lot bigger.
3) While there has been some speculation about Mitchell being biased, the report actually reads as very even-handed. It also points out the shortcomings of the investigation, e. g. no subpoena power (which will be rectified in the Congressional hearings). Hence if Mitchell had had subpoena power and if he could have threatened players with perjury and/or obstruction of justice, the report would be at least twice as long and Clemens would be in even more of a corner. Possible score for lying.
4) If Clemens is innocent as he says, he has made himself extremely unlikable with that interview. It was not in his best interests to go out there and act like such a jerk and look so shifty. Does that mean that it's really the truth and he's just inept? Then he should fire his legal team, too, as no one told him anything about damage control. Don't know how to score this one.
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jan, 2008 06:39 am
why the f would he have a press conference to replay a taped phone conversation that failed to shed any positive light on his case??

big roger shot himself in the foot last night.
career over, no HOF induction, and he has alienated the media...
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jan, 2008 09:38 am
jespah wrote:
For McNamee (do I have the name right?), it is in his best interests to tell the truth (or at least the facts to the best of his knowledge) as he was under a plea agreement already, with the condition that he name names. He had named plenty of names by the time Clemens came up. Adding Clemens, if there was a mistake of fact or no way to substantiate, was not in McNamee's best interests as he would have gone to jail if his naming names turned out to be perjury. Tossing Clemens onto the pile, unless there was ample reason to do so, would have been the acme of foolishness for McNamee. The man (M.) is not going to act against his own personal best interests. His statements are self-serving by definition, but there are cancelled checks, receipts and phone records (albeit not specifically in the Clemens matter) and those really add to the reliability of his statements.



Word.
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jan, 2008 05:21 pm
Thanks, my brotha pitcha.

Whoa, the phone call. Man oh Manischewitz wtf did Roger and his legal beasties think they were gonna get from that???!?!?!?!??!

Mainly it makes Roger look like a manipulative jerk. It also shows McNamee are being, well, not the brightest bulb on the tree, but also somewhat broken as a person. McNamee seems to have been under the mistaken impression that they could remain friends after all that's transpired. He still seems to think that, and seems to be wishing it all away, as if he were six years old and it was bedtime. Wishing for the clock to go back an hour.

The phone call may or may not be admissable. McNamee did not know he was being taped. Texas and NY law both say that so long as one party to the conversation knows of the taping, then the tape can be admissable. Other states differ. Can't recall what Federal law says re that.

Roger continues bitching about the court of public opinion and then continues to pull these kinds of stupid ass stunts. He yells at his questioners and insults their intelligence. Any hopes he may have had for favorable press coverage, or for eventual press voting him into the HoF have got to be mostly if not wholly by the boards.

He comes across as whiny, selfish and with an exaggerrated sense of entitlement. He comes across as exploiting the weak (McNamee, let's face it) and as almost being a Svengali-like figure to Pettitte and then throwing Pettitte over when the going got rough. He also gives forth the impression of being win at all costs and run over everyone. Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead! He gives off a huge sneakiness vibe that's completely confirmed by taping his former friend while the guy wanted to talk to him about his sick child.

The one thing he does not come across as is honest. Or forthright. Or contrite. Or concerned about the integrity of the game. Or interested in justice except insofar as the legal system exists to get him exonerated.

I do not wish wrong verdicts upon the innocent. And he may very well be innocent. But if he is not ....
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2008 06:07 pm
See: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/01/07/clemens/index.html
Check, in particular, the Michael McCann articles. I think it's about as balanced, fair and favorable that Roger could ever hope for -- and he still ends up looking lousy.
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2008 07:12 am
1987, the last time The Roger was clean...
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Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 08:44 am
How bad are things when we get down to ....

No I didn't do it, it was my wife, she was doin' it.

(baseball ain't gonna get anything good outta this)

RH
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 08:49 am
we can only hope the up-n'-comers learn a valuable lesson from this fiasco...
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Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 09:17 am
This is really gettin' good...

Is anyone else watchin it?
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Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 09:27 am
Stick a fork in Roger, somebody...
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 09:52 am
i'll catch the lowlights on the news tonight...

si.com has a live blog...
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Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 10:00 am
He is speaking in Bushisms and stuttering a lot.

misremembers is to be the new buzz word.
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Stray Cat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 02:28 pm
Quote:
This is really gettin' good...

Is anyone else watchin it?


I heard it was pretty interesting, and that Clemens was digging in his heels, refusing to admit anything.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 04:18 pm
My husband was watching it. He was flabbergasted at Clemens' refusal to admit anything and generally looking like a babbling, stuttering buffoon. And did I hear correctly? He sold out his wife? Is this his current wife? Shocked
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 04:34 pm
eoe wrote:
Is this his current wife? Shocked

she is the future ex-Mrs. Clemens...
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 05:21 pm
Oh, man, I've been missing out, been out in the garden harvesting rocks.

From my pov, it's Too Late The Phalarope, to quote a serious book title that has nothing to do with this but my mind has zinged in on the title all these years.
Though, I suppose, better late than never.
0 Replies
 
 

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