Alcoholism - and controlled drinking?

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Seems, someone "had" to write a book:

Controlled Drinking: Controversial Alternative to AA

Summary:
Alcoholics Anonymous has a great track record, but one doctor writes that AA's strategy isn't the only game in town when treating alcoholism. In "Take Control of Your Drinking And You May Not Need to Quit," Michael Levy argues that a controlled level of drinking can be effective, in contrast to AA's emphasis on strict abstinence, LiveScience reports.

Levy writes that AA can be very helpful, but also points out that some treatment-seekers have trouble with the spiritual aspect of the program. The second of the 12 steps involves accepting the existence of a higher Power, and six of the steps mention God, LiveScience reports. Levy says this might discourage some alcoholics from looking for help.

While I do agree with quite a few of his points ...

AA is not for everyone. While it is one of the most effective treatment programs, succeeding about 20 percent of the time, it is one method among several, which include other kinds of support groups, psychotherapy, medication, or a combination of all of these.
AA, Levy says, doesn't have a monopoly on treatment plans

... I do firmly believe that anyone who can recover by drinking moderately was never an alcoholic in the first place.

And, that above quoted article mentions another just published as well

Quote:

Dr. Jack Hedblom, a psychotherapist in Maryland, is a firm believer in the AA program and attempts to demystify the organization in his book, "Last Call" (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2007). He emphasizes the importance of spiritual development, for example, but refutes the idea that the 12 steps are part of an organized religion. He sees no hope in controlled drinking for alcoholics.

What they say:

Quote:

Both his book, "Take Control of Your Drinking," and "Last Call" were published nearly simultaneously, perhaps in an attempt to keep the alcoholism treatment debate lively.

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Huh.

I..fimd..the..illemss..model..of..AA..quite..umcovimcimg.

My..coumtry's..drug..amd..alcohol..services..are..dased..om..a..harm..mimisatio..model.

I..fimd..it..hard..to..comprehemd..why..you..are..surprised..at..this.challemge
to..AA's..philosophy.

Surely..Germam..alcohol..imtervemtiom..models..are..mot..dased..om.AA.
or..are..they(questiommark)

I..dom't..demy..it..works..for..some,..ut..surely..altermatives..are..mo..surprise..to..you(questiommark)m

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As far as I am aware of it - and that is quite a bit, I think - me definate alcoholism as the AA does: when you can't stop drinking, you are an alcoholic.

I personally think that this is quite convinient for many - thus, we have "only" three million people who need (would need) medical treatment for their alcoholism.

I've been working with alcoholism quite a couple of years and seen (professionally as well as in self help groups [non-AA!]) more alcoholics than many others.
Many tried and told that they could drink controlled.
Out of those, no-one succeeded.

If you can drink alcohol controlled, you aren't an alcoholic. Qua definitionem.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

As far as I am aware of it - and that is quite a bit, I think - me definate alcoholism as the AA does: when you can't stop drinking, you are an alcoholic.

I personally think that this is quite convinient for many - thus, we have "only" three million people who need (would need) medical treatment for their alcoholism.

I've been working with alcoholism quite a couple of years and seen (professionally as well as in self help groups [non-AA!]) more alcoholics than many others.
Many tried and told that they could drink controlled.
Out of those, no-one succeeded.

If you can drink alcohol controlled, you aren't an alcoholic. Qua definitionem.

That..is..utterly..illogical,..as..you..would..immediately
recogize..with..a..suject.mot..so..close..to..you.

You..cammot..look..at..am..ojective..evaluatio..of..two..differimg..treatmemt..philosophies..
y..excludimg..ome..of..them..as..part..of..a..defiitiom..of..what..you..claim..to..e..comparmg!!!!

If..you..have..proper..studies..supportimg..your..view..(with..proper..sciemtific..defimitioms,..ot..themomsemse..you..have..just..proposed)
I..wou;d..e..happy..to..look..at..them.

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This struck me, from a recent article on perfectionism in the NYT:

Quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/04/health/04mind.html

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It's an interesting therapeutic methodology; "If you could have quit, you would have quit, but you didn't quit, which proves you cannot quit."

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dyslexia wrote:

It's an interesting therapeutic methodology; "If you could have quit, you would have quit, but you didn't quit, which proves you cannot quit."

Case rested.

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dlowan wrote:

If..you..have..proper..studies..supportimg..your..view..(with..proper..sciemtific..defimitioms,..ot..themomsemse..you..have..just..proposed)
I..wou;d..e..happy..to..look..at..them.

There are a couple online - at least as summaries/abstracts (I get there via my [university] library card).
The wiki article has some links, which might lead to some articles, too.

I do agree, however, that my personal knowledge is just anecdotical - coming out of councelling, visting patients in clinics, experiences with people I know - and my own life.

I don't mind if people drink controlled or uncontrolled, if they or others admit that they are ill or not.

If someone can drink controlled as an alcoholic - okay with me.

I personally don't start such a test since I like life more than death.
25 years sober now, and I neither missed contolled drinking nor drinking alcohol at all.

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Sglass wrote:

dyslexia wrote:
It's an interesting therapeutic methodology; "If you could have quit, you would have quit, but you didn't quit, which proves you cannot quit."

Case rested.

Yes(questiommark)

If..that..is..the..case..them..it..is..exactly..the..same..argumemt..
that..Walter..tried..to..use..(amd..which..I..assume..from..your..commemt..you..
agree..with)..dut..with..differemt..words.

"If..someome's..alcoholic..drimkimg..patterm..is..helped..dy..comtrolled..drimkimg,..
them..they..cam't..have..eem..am..alcoholic,..decause..alcoholics..cam't..
comtrol..their..drimkimg."

Equally..circular..amd..equally..imvalid.

Amyhoo,..I..cam't..moumt..omgoimg..argumemts..with..this..keyoard,..so.
you..cam..de..as..illogical..as..you..wamt..amd..I..wom't..say..amythimg..else!

Walter Hinteler wrote:

dlowan wrote:

If..you..have..proper..studies..supportimg..your..view..(with..proper..sciemtific..defimitioms,..ot..themomsemse..you..have..just..proposed)
I..wou;d..e..happy..to..look..at..them.

There are a couple online - at least as summaries/abstracts (I get there via my [university] library card).
The wiki article has some links, which might lead to some articles, too.

I do agree, however, that my personal knowledge is just anecdotical - coming out of councelling, visting patients in clinics, experiences with people I know - and my own life.

I don't mind if people drink controlled or uncontrolled, if they or others admit that they are ill or not.

If someone can drink controlled as an alcoholic - okay with me.

I personally don't start such a test since I like life more than death.
25 years sober now, and I neither missed contolled drinking nor drinking alcohol at all.

.

Imdeed,..Walter.

I..dom't..argue..that..AA..helps..a..lot..of..folk.

I..just..thimk..your..argumemt..was..silly,..amd..AA..is..mot..the..de..all..amd..emd..all
of..approaches.

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I don't argue at all, too, that AA is helping a lot.

Itw wasn't for me nor is for a lot of others.

But that wasn't my point at all.

(It wouldn't be a great help if I used material/sources from my thesis: that was written more than 20 years ago. And I really didn't follow the significant researches afterwards academically.)

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Another way of putting it is

When you have to control your drinking,

the drink is controlling you.

I maintain that alcoholism is a self-diagnosed disease. I cannot tell anyone what they are and what they arn't.

However, as a shop steward, one of my classes on substance abuse in the workplace stated that the difference between a social drinker and an alcoholic is that the alocholic has a couple of drinks and there are dramatic changes in his personality. The social drinker has a couple and there are no appreciable changes in his personality.

I know that it is hard to separate the wheat from the chaff sometimes.

But down deep, I think most people are aware of it when they are in trouble with alcohol. That is whey it is called the disease of denial.

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The harm reduction model has been in vogue here for more than a decade and as a tool, for some, I think it's very helpful. My only tentative concern is that it appears to be...plied, to the exclusion of abstinence.

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If one can control one's drinking, he ain't an alcoholic.

I guess I should add, "IMO".

Good stuff, Walter.

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Convinced, snood.

I herewith officially add my "IMHO" as well. :wink:

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Alcoholism - and controlled drinking?

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