Another question for the right and left

Left your sense of humor in your other pants when you changed clothes this morning? (You did change clothes this morning, i hope.)

That's the kind of broad satire that one might equate with a bludgeon. It makes as much sense as the horseshit positions which you have ascribed to "liberals."

Nice trick that, though, to blame anything with which you don't agree on libertarians. Don't have a lot of libertarian friends with whom you discuss politics?

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flaja wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Combating global warming is a liberal goal.

I specifically deny that this has any basis in reality. Combating climate change is not a position clearly defined by our political matrix.

Then why is it that a liberal just won a Nobel Prize for his belief in global warming?

Why is it that liberals are the ones that are pushing for things like Kyoto?

Is everyone who is concerned about global warming, Liberal? Obviously not, and the examples you have provided don't provide any sort of proof that this is true.

And, in fact, why should it be a Liberal position? I'd like to hear you describe which part of Conservationism is inherently Liberal.

You are committing a logical fallacy - a combination of non-corrollary statistics and anecdotal evidence. Not impressive. The fact that Gore is Liberal does not mean that all environmentalists are Liberal. The fact that liberals are pushing for environmental standards doesn't make them the only ones who do so.

Wanting to protect our environment and shepherd the Earth is not an inherently Liberal position. It has become so in our society, b/c most American Conservatives have chosen to support business interests over environmental ones for the last 40 years; a pathetically short-sighted and stupid choice, and one which is now coming back to bite them in the ass.

Cycloptichorn

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It really will bite them in the ass . . . when the Poconos become beach-front property, all those Jew liberals are gonna make a killing . . .

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flaja wrote:

Are you saying that Democrats are not liberal?

Correct.

It's hard to find any liberals in the United States, and the Democratic party is not the place to look for them.

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flaja wrote:

you are describing libertarians, not conservatives.

They're not mutually exclusive terms.

~~~

One of the more interesting real-life discussions I observed in the last couple of years was between a far-left Libertarian (former A2Ker) and a far-right Libertarian (and activist member of Canada's Conservative party). Both agreed on decreased government involvement, but how they got there, and what government they would accept was radically different.

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Setanta wrote:

Left your sense of humor in your other pants when you changed clothes this morning? (You did change clothes this morning, i hope.)

That's the kind of broad satire that one might equate with a bludgeon. It makes as much sense as the horseshit positions which you have ascribed to "liberals."

Nice trick that, though, to blame anything with which you don't agree on libertarians. Don't have a lot of libertarian friends with whom you discuss politics?

I discuss politics quite a bit with libertarians since the internet is so infested with them. But under no circumstances do I consider any libertarian to be my friend.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Is everyone who is concerned about global warming, Liberal?

As far as I can tell, yes. I know of no legitimate conservative who believes global warming is actually happening so no legitimate conservative can be concerned with it.

Quote:

And, in fact, why should it be a Liberal position? I'd like to hear you describe which part of Conservationism is inherently Liberal.

The part that says business and industry cannot make a profit because some little animal may suffer.

The part that says the United States should be subjected to economic restrictions that countries like communist China are not to be subjected to.

The part that imposes absurd government regulations on property use.

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ehBeth wrote:

flaja wrote:
Are you saying that Democrats are not liberal?

Correct.

You'd be laughable if you were not so obviously a fool.

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ehBeth wrote:

flaja wrote:
you are describing libertarians, not conservatives.

They're not mutually exclusive terms.

To a large extent they are.

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Re: Another question for the right and left

flaja wrote:

Imposing standards is the conservative aspect of what I advocate.

Well, that's a bit like saying that liberals and conservatives are alike because they both believe in the advantages of education. The differences, however, are in the details, and that's what you have glossed over in your attempt to describe the "liberal" position on education.

flaja wrote:

Increasing the federal role in public education (including federal financial support with guaranteed teacher salaries) is the liberal aspect. Liberals have a history of advocating and imposing a greater role for the federal government in public schools, but yet we have spent billions and billions of dollars on liberal programs and still have failing schools.

But that's not what you said originally. You wrote:

flaja wrote:

For example: I am a conservative but I am in favor of a national public school system, one with a national K-12 curriculum, nationally standardized textbooks and teacher qualifications.

There's nothing "liberal" about a national public school system. Indeed, the closest we've ever come to a nationalized public school system is the No Child Left Behind Act, which is most assuredly not a liberal program.

flaja wrote:

National Defense Education Act
Vocational Education Act of 1963
Higher Education Facilities Act of 1963
Economic Opportunity Act of 1964
Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965
National Foundation on the Arts and the Humanities Acts
Public Broadcasting Act of 1967
National Commission on Libraries and Information Services Act
Comprehensive Employment and Training Act of 1973
Harry S. Truman Memorial Scholarship Act
Educational Broadcasting Facilities and Telecommunications Demonstration Act of 1976
Youth Employment and Demonstration Projects Act of 1977
Career Education Incentive Act
Middle Income Student Assistance Act
Federal Department of Education
Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Bilingual Education
Impact Aid
Stewart B. McKinney Homeless Assistance Amendment Acts of 1988
Head Start
Excellence in Mathematics, Science and Engineering Education Act of 1990
School Dropout Prevention and Basic Skills Improvement Act of 1990
National Literacy Act of 1991
Ready to Learn Act
Goals 2000: Educate America Act
School to Work Opportunities Act of 1994
Improving America's Schools Act

I'd estimate that about a third to a half of those programs were passed either by Republican administrations or Republican congresses. Does that make Ronald Reagan a liberal?

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flaja wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Is everyone who is concerned about global warming, Liberal?

As far as I can tell, yes. I know of no legitimate conservative who believes global warming is actually happening so no legitimate conservative can be concerned with it.

Some of the worst logic I've seen.

Surely I don't need to remind you that Climate Change is a world-wide issue - and Conservatives in many countries, including the US, are concerned about it? It's both parochial and sophmoric to declare that no 'legitimate' conservative can be concerned with something which doesn't happen to concern you personally.

Quote:

And, in fact, why should it be a Liberal position? I'd like to hear you describe which part of Conservationism is inherently Liberal.

The part that says business and industry cannot make a profit because some little animal may suffer.

The part that says the United States should be subjected to economic restrictions that countries like communist China are not to be subjected to.

The part that imposes absurd government regulations on property use.[/quote][/quote]

First, Appealing to Extremes. It's people who always suffer in the end, not just 'some little animal.'

Second, A valid position, but not inherently Liberal at all.

Third, a ridiculous position as well as a vapid personal judgment. It has long been noted that business concerns have extreme difficulty containing the by-products of their land usage; generally this is what is regulated.

---

You would be better served to put more care into your posts; sloppiness doesn't win arguments.

Cycloptichorn

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flaja wrote:

I discuss politics quite a bit with libertarians since the internet is so infested with them. But under no circumstances do I consider any libertarian to be my friend.

I suspect that libertarians the world over have heaved a heavy sigh of relief at the news.

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By the way, i forgot to say . . .

Fresh Fish ! ! ! Fresh Fish ! ! !

McG, Mysteryman, Woiyo and Okie were getting rather stale . . . it's good to have some new material . . .

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Same old arguments though. The part about German immigration was pretty funny, I must say...

Cycloptichorn

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In the other thread, he claimed that half the U.S. population are of German descent, and the other half of British descent. He's always squealing about "documentation," although he provides none himself. So i found the factfinder page at the United States Census Bureau, which shows that Americans of German descent number just over 50,000,000, and Americans of English descent just over 28,000,000. Which, all tolled, does not add up to 30% of the population. In the thread about the holocaust and the 6,000,000, Nimh is tearing him a new @sshole over the subject of the slaughter of Roma ("Gypsies"). He claimed that the term holocaust does not apply to them, and that the Nazis did not kill Roma because they claimed that they were racially inferior.

You know Nimh, he's got a whole heap of links to make his point. This joker demands "documentation" from others, but doesn't provide it himself. He told Nimh that he had 40 credit hours of history in the course of getting a degree in biology. I suspect that he attended the University of the German-American Bund, given the character of what he has been writing about Germans.

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Re: Another question for the right and left

joefromchicago wrote:

I'd estimate that about a third to a half of those programs were passed either by Republican administrations or Republican congresses. Does that make Ronald Reagan a liberal?

The programs that I listed were enacted from 1958 to 1994. The Democrats had a majority in the U.S. House of Representatives in every one of these years and the Democrats had a majority in the U.S. Senate for each of these years except 1981 to 1987. And a Democrat was in the White House from 1961 to 1969, 1977 to 1981 and 1993 to 1994. These were programs that were created by liberals and funded by liberals (since all budget appropriations must originate in the U.S. House of Representatives which had a liberal majority).

Furthermore, when it came to spending money, Ronald Reagan was a liberal.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Some of the worst logic I've seen.

Surely I don't need to remind you that Climate Change is a world-wide issue - and Conservatives in many countries, including the US, are concerned about it?

Like I said, no legitimate conservative is concerned with climate change because even if climate change is actually happening, there is no scientific way to show why it is happening and thus no way to know that humans are causing it or that humans can do anything about it. Conservatives rely on hard facts and there are no hard facts to support the conclusion that the climate is changing.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Same old arguments though. The part about German immigration was pretty funny, I must say...

Cycloptichorn

The truth is funny?

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flaja wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Same old arguments though. The part about German immigration was pretty funny, I must say...

Cycloptichorn

The truth is funny?

Well, this last post of yours is even funnier Laughing

Post some stats and links and get taken seriously. Not until.

Cycloptichorn

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flaja wrote:

Like I said, no legitimate conservative

Perhaps this would be a good time to ask you to provide a short list of people you consider legitimate conservatives.

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Another question for the right and left

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