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Sean Taylor: Another victim of stupid gun laws

 
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 10:24 am
Another freeper gem from Gynga AKA damondonion

Quote:
Posted by damondonion to Stallone
On News/Activism 09/13/2007 2:22:57 AM PDT ยท 13 of 83

The really big mystery of Judaism is the question of why any Jew would ever vote for a democrat.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 10:44 am
While this death may not have occurred if the homeowner had a firearm, I care about the police, nationwide, that get shot by guns in the hands of criminals.

I feel for the family's of all police that never know if their loved ones will be coming home after a shift. That fear is increased, because of guns in the hands of criminals.

Perhaps, bullets need to be rationed to legal gun owners? All other bullets are kept in government armories?

Maybe society needs a program of "bullet control"?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 10:52 am
This idiotic thread assumes that had the victim been armed with a handgun, he would not have been killed. That's part and parcel of the "cowboy" ethos of those who are the most fanatically loud-mouthed in opposition to gun control--as though simply owning a handgun somehow immediately makes the owner a competent and heroic wielder of a firearm.

Even with a gun in his hand, there is no good reason to assume that the victim would have survived the experience. Owning a gun doesn't make someone a good shot, and doesn't mean that he or she will use it properly in a stressful situation. It does, however, increase the likelihood that someone will be shot, and with what outcome, no one can predict.

I agree with Foofie, up to the point of hammering on the issue of "criminals." Lawfully owned and registered handguns in the home are dangerous to the police just as are handguns in the possession of criminals.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:06 am
Foofie wrote:
While this death may not have occurred if the homeowner had a firearm, I care about the police, nationwide, that get shot by guns in the hands of criminals.



If Sean Taylor had had a gun in his hand instead of a machete there could easily be four fewer criminals around today to shoot cops. Conversely there wasn't really any danger of Sean Taylor ever shooting a cop.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:16 am
It is just as likely, and probably more likely, that he would have died in a fusillade of bullets, and there would have been one more handgun on the illegal market.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:21 am
Ok Set, how about a shotgun?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:26 am
Foofie wrote:
While this death may not have occurred if the homeowner had a firearm, I care about the police, nationwide, that get shot by guns in the hands of criminals.

I feel for the family's of all police that never know if their loved ones will be coming home after a shift. That fear is increased, because of guns in the hands of criminals.

Perhaps, bullets need to be rationed to legal gun owners? All other bullets are kept in government armories?

Maybe society needs a program of "bullet control"?


How would bullets be easier to track than guns? Very nieve statement.


You will not get the guns out of the hands of criminals unless you are able to BAN ALL guns. No measure of "gun control" short of a complete BAN and round up will have any chance of removing guns from criminals.

Now, since we know that a complete ban is IMPOSSIBLE, can we all agree that many (not all) gun control measures, such as this one that prevented Taylor from protecting his life, should probably be eliminated. This will allow individuals to protect themselves from criminals.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:30 am
Setanta wrote:

Even with a gun in his hand, there is no good reason to assume that the victim would have survived the experience.


Were his chances greater if he could have fought back with equal force? Even .01% greater?

Simple yes or no answer will do.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:32 am
Foofie wrote:
While this death may not have occurred if the homeowner had a firearm,


If your grandmother had balls, she'd be your grandfather. This stupid speculation is sickening and trivializes Sean's life. It really is nauseating that so much disrespect is being shown toward Sean's memory and that his death merely serves as political fodder for psychopathic gun nuts.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:33 am
maporsche wrote:
Setanta wrote:

Even with a gun in his hand, there is no good reason to assume that the victim would have survived the experience.


Were his chances greater if he could have fought back with equal force? Even .01% greater?

Simple yes or no answer will do.


No, the best defense is let the robbers have everything and stay calm. Trying to defend your home by getting into a shootout with four armed men is the height of stupidity.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:39 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
maporsche wrote:
Setanta wrote:

Even with a gun in his hand, there is no good reason to assume that the victim would have survived the experience.


Were his chances greater if he could have fought back with equal force? Even .01% greater?

Simple yes or no answer will do.


No, the best defense is let the robbers have everything and stay calm. Trying to defend your home by getting into a shootout with four armed men is the height of stupidity.


That obviously was NOT the best defense in this case was it?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:44 am
maporsche wrote:
Setanta wrote:

Even with a gun in his hand, there is no good reason to assume that the victim would have survived the experience.


Were his chances greater if he could have fought back with equal force? Even .01% greater?

Simple yes or no answer will do.

No.

His chances of injuring one of them might have been greater but his chances of not being injured himself wouldn't have really changed. There were 4 of them.

If you are more likely to shoot to defend yourself if you have a gun then would not the same standard apply to any individual, criminal or not, that has a gun. Any increase in his likelihood of defense with the gun would be offset by 4 people facing him who would be threatened by his gun.


As for "tracking bullets", the Swiss require registration to purchase bullets not used on a shooting range.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:47 am
maporsche wrote:
Roxxxanne wrote:
maporsche wrote:
Setanta wrote:

Even with a gun in his hand, there is no good reason to assume that the victim would have survived the experience.


Were his chances greater if he could have fought back with equal force? Even .01% greater?

Simple yes or no answer will do.


No, the best defense is let the robbers have everything and stay calm. Trying to defend your home by getting into a shootout with four armed men is the height of stupidity.


That obviously was NOT the best defense in this case was it?


We really don't have the details yet as to how this went down. It doesn't matter really. Sean is dead. I know that in most cases, burglars don't kill their victims in cold blood.

Anyway, I will let you men continue to engage in your Dirty Harry/ John Wayne fantasy. You apparently have a deep emotional need to do so.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:49 am
parados wrote:
maporsche wrote:
Setanta wrote:

Even with a gun in his hand, there is no good reason to assume that the victim would have survived the experience.


Were his chances greater if he could have fought back with equal force? Even .01% greater?

Simple yes or no answer will do.

No.

His chances of injuring one of them might have been greater but his chances of not being injured himself wouldn't have really changed. There were 4 of them.

If you are more likely to shoot to defend yourself if you have a gun then would not the same standard apply to any individual, criminal or not, that has a gun. Any increase in his likelihood of defense with the gun would be offset by 4 people facing him who would be threatened by his gun.


As for "tracking bullets", the Swiss require registration to purchase bullets not used on a shooting range.


Usually street criminals are more skilled and better armed than the average clown who has an emotional need to fantasize that he is John Wayne.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:03 pm
parados wrote:
maporsche wrote:
Setanta wrote:

Even with a gun in his hand, there is no good reason to assume that the victim would have survived the experience.


Were his chances greater if he could have fought back with equal force? Even .01% greater?

Simple yes or no answer will do.

No.

His chances of injuring one of them might have been greater but his chances of not being injured himself wouldn't have really changed. There were 4 of them.

If you are more likely to shoot to defend yourself if you have a gun then would not the same standard apply to any individual, criminal or not, that has a gun. Any increase in his likelihood of defense with the gun would be offset by 4 people facing him who would be threatened by his gun.


As for "tracking bullets", the Swiss require registration to purchase bullets not used on a shooting range.



There also the obvious chance that the criminals, who were there for a home invasion (theft), would have seen the gun, or heard Taylor say he had a gun and, not wanting to die for a TV or stereo, have left without doing any harm.

Or if Taylor were simply able to protect the entry way to his bedroom, the fact that there were 4 of them would have been offset by the small opening of the bedroom door (where only 1 or maybe 2 could fit at a time). Anyone who's ever taken any sort of firearm defense class would know that.

I betcha Taylor's wife, parent's, children (if any) with Taylor had a gun with him.





And as far as the bullets statement, you point falls through. Illinois requires a permit to buy bullets, but you can buy a 1000 or more at a time and there really is no tracking that happens after you leave the store.

How would tracking bullets be any EASIER than tracking guns. Bullets are smaller, have less metal, have no serial numbers, are much much cheaper.

You guys really aren't that stupid.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:06 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:

Usually street criminals are more skilled and better armed than the average clown who has an emotional need to fantasize that he is John Wayne.


Let's see, a shot gun pointed at a bedroom door 15 feet away doesn't really require a whole lot of aim or skill.

And the only reason criminals are better armed is because they don't obey the gun control laws that exist. Those same gun controls that restrict ownership of legal gun owners. You've made my point for me.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:08 pm
Perhaps one day we will see a post from a relative of gunga stating that he was killed in a shootout with a bad guy but did manage to kill the perpetrator.

A win win. Laughing
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:12 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
I know that in most cases, burglars don't kill their victims in cold blood.



Yes, and in most cases gun owners who pull a gun don't empty a magazine either.

A gun is insurance IN CASE you need it.


To show you that I'm not completly one-sided on this issue, attached is a situation where I feel the gun owner was completly wrong. If you search for the 911 call online you can hear the actual conversation. This gun owner was in the wrong.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml?source=mostpop_story
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:16 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
the average clown who has an emotional need to fantasize that he is John Wayne.


And this is a gross mis-characterization.

You should be ashamed of yourself for making it.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:21 pm
maporsche wrote:


There also the obvious chance that the criminals, who were there for a home invasion (theft), would have seen the gun, or heard Taylor say he had a gun and, not wanting to die for a TV or stereo, have left without doing any harm.

Speculation on your part. They were willing to shoot him when he didn't have a gun. Why wouldn't the criminals have shot Taylor if they saw he had a gun?

You are wanting us to believe that simply having a gun will defuse a situation when the other person also has a gun. That is complete nonsense.

Quote:

Or if Taylor were simply able to protect the entry way to his bedroom, the fact that there were 4 of them would have been offset by the small opening of the bedroom door (where only 1 or maybe 2 could fit at a time). Anyone who's ever taken any sort of firearm defense class would know that.

I betcha Taylor's wife, parent's, children (if any) with Taylor had a gun with him.
A lot of assumptions there, many of which go against the reported story of what happened.

Taylor heard a noise and went to investigate so wasn't in his bedroom.

Why would Taylor KNOW there were 4 of them just because he heard a noise?

Why would the 4 of them be close together or even in the same part of the house?
0 Replies
 
 

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