Iran's illegal Nuclear Weapons Program

one thing that always troubles me is American one eyed support in favour of Israel. Why? Evangelican Christians who are more passionate about Israel than many Jews, believe it heralds the End Times when the Jews will convert and Armageddon will sort things out. What utter garbage. But they believe it...aparantly. Please tell me its all a game.

Armageddon outta here.

(You're not one of those are you Oralloy?)

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oralloy wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
The natanz facility is 75 feet underground and protected by many feet of reinforced concrete.

Yes.

Steve 41oo wrote:
The gbu 28 wont touch it.

I disagree.

Steve 41oo wrote:
As far as I know the Massive Ordnance Penetrator is not ready and only for US use.

Only in the US arsenal.

I haven't heard, but I'd bet it was ready.

Steve 41oo wrote:
Anyway the whole excercise is pointless, because now they know how to do it the Iranians will rebuild. Probably down a mine.

That is why the long-term solution is to massively upgrade Israel's nuclear arsenal, so as to better deter against Iranian aggression.

Bombing Iran is just a short-term solution.
[........]

.

Oralloy - thank you for this priceless showcase of disinformation; even the masters of the old Kremlin would turn pale with envy at this display.

FYI - the "bunker busters" don't work, yet, in the US arsenal. I don't care if you're a kissin' buddy of the former engineering manager of Elscint, who left JFK airport on an illegal ElAl flight taking off directly into the path of 30 commercial airliners on final approach for landing. He was convicted for high treason in absentia to life in prison, and the pilot of that plane, taking off against urgent orders of the airport tower, with FBI cars rushing to block the runway, can never come back to the US again.

I am a pilot who happened to be one of the 300+ planes in New York's airspace at the time: for the record, I spit on you and all your ilk and look forward to the day y'all rot in jail alongside Jonathan Pollard. Hope that was clear Smile

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Steve - it's a matter of time Smile

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Quote:

I don't care if you're a kissin' buddy of the former engineering manager of Elscint, who left JFK airport on an illegal ElAl flight taking off directly into the path of 30 commercial airliners on final approach for landing. He was convicted for high treason in absentia to life in prison, and the pilot of that plane, taking off against urgent orders of the airport tower, with FBI cars rushing to block the runway, can never come back to the US again.

I dont suppose you have a link to any news items about this, do you?

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Setanta wrote:

The most insane advice i've seen on this subject is Oralloy's suggestion that we beef up the Israeli nuclear arsenal. Yeah . . . right . . . those clowns have always displayed sterling military judgment . . . just ask the Lebanese . . .

Well, if we don't prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, Israel is going to need a stronger nuclear deterrent.

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Hey Oralloy, did you notice that the Dems blocked Bush's recess appointments? As predicted.

Cycloptichorn

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Steve 41oo wrote:

one thing that always troubles me is American one eyed support in favour of Israel. Why? Evangelican Christians who are more passionate about Israel than many Jews, believe it heralds the End Times when the Jews will convert and Armageddon will sort things out. What utter garbage. But they believe it...aparantly. Please tell me its all a game.

Armageddon outta here.

(You're not one of those are you Oralloy?)

No. I think Revelation was a propaganda piece written to give hope to Christians when the Romans were persecuting them. I think the person who wrote it pretended that the piece had been written a few decades before, then "predicted" those last few decades, then went on to predict Rome's destruction in vague terms.

The Christian fundamentalists seem to have developed a doctrine that isn't well grounded in the actual document. If you take a bunch of their specific predictions of what is supposed to happen, and go look up the passage that they say is supposed to predict them, you'll see something like "And the fifth angel came out and blew his trumpet, and there was a great earthquake."

I'm more agnostic than anything else in my religions beliefs. I have seen no evidence either of God's existence or his nonexistence.

I do *hope* that there is some sort of judgment and afterlife however, mainly because I'd prefer not to cease to exist when I die. And also because there are some injustices here on earth that should be rectified, and which clearly aren't ever going to be rectified without some sort of divine judgment of the perpetrators' souls.

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High Seas wrote:

Oralloy - thank you for this priceless showcase of disinformation; even the masters of the old Kremlin would turn pale with envy at this display.

FYI - the "bunker busters" don't work, yet, in the US arsenal. I don't care if you're a kissin' buddy of the former engineering manager of Elscint, who left JFK airport on an illegal ElAl flight taking off directly into the path of 30 commercial airliners on final approach for landing. He was convicted for high treason in absentia to life in prison, and the pilot of that plane, taking off against urgent orders of the airport tower, with FBI cars rushing to block the runway, can never come back to the US again.

I am a pilot who happened to be one of the 300+ planes in New York's airspace at the time: for the record, I spit on you and all your ilk and look forward to the day y'all rot in jail alongside Jonathan Pollard. Hope that was clear

I think I smell an anti-Semite. Sad

High Seas wrote:

FYI - the "bunker busters" don't work, yet, in the US arsenal.

Don't see why not. They were fitting them to B2 bombers half a year ago. And there isn't any radical new technology involved.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Hey Oralloy, did you notice that the Dems blocked Bush's recess appointments? As predicted.

Bush isn't trying to make any recess appointments. If he were, there are a number of things he and the Republicans could do to get his appointments through.

I do expect the Republicans will remember this tactic and use it against all future Democratic presidents however.

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mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
I don't care if you're a kissin' buddy of the former engineering manager of Elscint, who left JFK airport on an illegal ElAl flight taking off directly into the path of 30 commercial airliners on final approach for landing. He was convicted for high treason in absentia to life in prison, and the pilot of that plane, taking off against urgent orders of the airport tower, with FBI cars rushing to block the runway, can never come back to the US again.

I dont suppose you have a link to any news items about this, do you?

MM - waste no time "supposing", instead use this link:
http://foia.fbi.gov/foia_instruc.htm

See what you find out, come back and post here, get Oralloy all riled up suspecting you of antisemitism - the FBI is already on his hit list, ditto for the USN, and for all I know the FAA as well.

Finally, here's an old SEC listing for the company mentioned:

Quote:

Elscint Ltd. Israel NYSE

http://www.sec.gov/divisions/corpfin/internatl/geographic.htm

That's 2 sources, (with links), MM, plus the FAA investigators.

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oralloy wrote:

...
I'm more agnostic than anything else in my religions beliefs. I have seen no evidence either of God's existence or his nonexistence.

I do *hope* that there is some sort of judgment and afterlife however, mainly because I'd prefer not to cease to exist when I die.

Thats quite reasonable. However religion isnt. Agnosticism and hope are incompatible. If you want to live you have to believe, no half way house.

I think it was Bertrand Russell who, when asked what he would say to God if he met him, was "not enough evidence". Actually there is none.

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Setanta wrote:

xingu wrote:
We don't need allies like Israel.

This bears repeating. .. .

Both of you know that Israel is NOT an ally. We don't even have a defense pact with them (as we do with Japan), never mind an actual treaty of alliance.

Loose usage of terms like "alliance" is downright dangerous when it comes to implementing policy.

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I have never been to Iran nor i am ill-informed about that country.
I was born in India which had not signed the non-proliferation pakt or treaty.
The country of my birth had now signed an agreement to enjoy the know-how of USA.
As long as one country has the "pleasure ", I uphold all the country should also have the same "pleasure"
Moreover the pot should not call the kettle black.
Rama

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oralloy wrote:

Setanta wrote:
The most insane advice i've seen on this subject is Oralloy's suggestion that we beef up the Israeli nuclear arsenal. Yeah . . . right . . . those clowns have always displayed sterling military judgment . . . just ask the Lebanese . . .

Well, if we don't prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, Israel is going to need a stronger nuclear deterrent.

Not to put too fine a point on it . . . bullshit.

The United States constitutes the only credible deterrent to Persian nuclear holocaust. Giving Israel more nukes is like giving matches to a child.

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Oh
The intellectuals
please allow the world in peace.
The world has many problems.
And the problems will be solved without the barbaric animalistic corporate support.

Rama

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This article courtesy of BBB who started a thread on Adm. Fallon and Iran:

Quote:

Fallon has no illusion about solving the Middle East or Central Asia during his tenure, but he's also acutely conscious that with globalization's rapid advance into these regions he may well be the last Centcom commander of his kind. Already Fallon sees the inevitability and utility of having a Chinese military partnership at Centcom, and he'd like to manage that inevitably from the start rather than have to repair damage down the line.

http://www.esquire.com/features/fox-fallon

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Given that Israel has wiped Palestine off the map, I think the Iranians need to be fearful they maybe next.

Israel is a rogue fascist and racist state. it believe all othe races are sub-human and do not really have the right to live freely.

Iran would be stupid to underestimate Israel which has invaded most of its neighbours and is built upon the destruction of another nation.

The West Bank and Gaza are the largest concentration camps the world has seen.

No wonder Israel is always voted the greatest threat to world peace.

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time appears to be running out for george bush to attack Iran. But is it too late?

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stevewonder wrote:

Given that Israel has wiped Palestine off the map, I think the Iranians need to be fearful they maybe next.

Israel is a rogue fascist and racist state. it believe all othe races are sub-human and do not really have the right to live freely.

Iran would be stupid to underestimate Israel which has invaded most of its neighbours and is built upon the destruction of another nation.

The West Bank and Gaza are the largest concentration camps the world has seen.

No wonder Israel is always voted the greatest threat to world peace.

If what you say is true, there should be a map somewhere that shows the country named Palestine.

NOT the region named Palestine, but the specific country.

Also, since you claim that there was a country named Palestine,answer these questions.

What was the capitol?
What other countries did they have diplomatic relations with?
What was its form of currency?
What was its GDP?
What was its military like?
Who was its last ruler?
What form of govt did it have?

If a country named Palestine existed, like you claim it did, these should be easy for you to answer.

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There are and have been people living in the region of Palestine long before the creation of Israel. They were not lucky enough to be granted a state by the UN like Israel. I know; I know; if only they would stop firing off rockets....

Anyway; on the subject of Iran I found an interesting article this morning. It was interesting to me because the guy said some thing I thought concerning Ahmadinejad.

Quote:

Khamenei, who has the last word on nuclear and foreign policy, praised Ahmadinejad last month for his nuclear stance and criticised those who had previously advocated compromise.

"The source of our problems is not whether we accept the suspension [of uranium enrichment] or not," Karoubi said, referring to Iran's disputed nuclear programme, which the West suspects is military, despite Tehran's denials.

"Fiery speeches and stances have created many problems for Iran," Karoubi added. "We can insist on our rights without provocative speeches."

Ahmadinejad's critics say he has helped to isolate Iran and expose it to three rounds of UN sanctions.

source

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Iran's illegal Nuclear Weapons Program

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