Widening Class Divide among Black Americans

I got it as soon as I pressed submit- sorry TG- yeah- alot of Americans would just like to forget the reality and the ensuing consequences...

i'm not sure exactly how much race has to do with dna either. i remember some argument that genetically, whites and blacks are closer than whites and asians. interesting, when race seems to be based largely on skin color, and when there are theories about asians coming over to north america to eventually become the natives of the land.

so what the hell is race, then? it seems almost completely made-up to me. perhaps it was meaningful up to a time shortly after travel by boat was possible.

It's NOT about color...

It's about behavior!!!

au said:

Quote:

It's NOT about color...

It's about behavior!!!

Quote:

That's true.
I had a really interesting conversation in my class the other day
about disciplinary styles among different cultures. And I kid you not -
out of the twenty people in that room - and there were blacks, whites,
and latinos- I was the only person who hadn't routinely received kicks or
blows from boots or shoes or bicycle chains or had my hair pulled

When this is discussed,
sometimes I get the impression that thay r almost BOASTING
of how severely ( and with what diabolically creativity )
their parents or teachers abused and terrorized them.
One girl, who is now a judge in NY, almost seemed to savor
the tales of child abuse in Puerto Rico, from which she came.

Is this masochism ?

Quote:

because I brought the wrong kind of ice-cream home from the store,
or was called a p***y or a c*** by my own mother for god's sake.

Respectfully, I don 't believe that it was for the sake of the Supreme Being.

Quote:

These kids were laughing and bonding over the fact that their parents' beat the crap out of them while calling them every degrading name you could possibly think of. So, it's not just about neglect, as in neglecting to participate in their lives and educations- it's about abuse- it's about beating them down- not just leaving them alone.
And it didn't seem to be different among the races, in fact one of the white boys described what sounded to be the most brutal abuse from his father (the bicycle chain).
No wonder these kids have no hope within themselves.

That is a distinct, discrete issue.
Thay may very well reject their parents' views,
and make their own assessments and plans.
It wud not be new for a kid to disagree with his parents.

Quote:

But the scariest thing is that when I asked them if they planned to employ
the same kind of "discipline" (which is what they told me it was)
on their children, they said yes, they would... and so the cycle continues.

What is your opinion
of the intelligences of those who announced those plans ?

Did thay explain the reason that thay believe this will be good child care ?

David

OmSigDAVID wrote:

aidan wrote:

au said:

Quote:

It's NOT about color...

It's about behavior!!!

Quote:

That's true.
I had a really interesting conversation in my class the other day
about disciplinary styles among different cultures. And I kid you not -
out of the twenty people in that room - and there were blacks, whites,
and latinos- I was the only person who hadn't routinely received kicks or
blows from boots or shoes or bicycle chains or had my hair pulled

When this is discussed,
sometimes I get the impression that thay r almost BOASTING
of how severely ( and with what diabolically creativity )
their parents or teachers abused and terrorized them.
One girl, who is now a judge in NY, almost seemed to savor
the tales of child abuse in Puerto Rico, from which she came.

Is this masochism ?

I think it's a defense mechanism. I think that if they ever
stopped to think for two seconds about what their life is or was and how it might have been different- they might crumble.
I do think there is an element of boastfulness to it though- it's like they're saying, 'Look what was done to me, and look how I was able to rise above it.'

Quote:

because I brought the wrong kind of ice-cream home from the store,
or was called a p***y or a c*** by my own mother for god's sake.
Respectfully, I don 't believe that it was for the sake of the Supreme Being.

Quote:

These kids were laughing and bonding over the fact that their parents' beat the crap out of them while calling them every degrading name you could possibly think of. So, it's not just about neglect, as in neglecting to participate in their lives and educations- it's about abuse- it's about beating them down- not just leaving them alone.
And it didn't seem to be different among the races, in fact one of the white boys described what sounded to be the most brutal abuse from his father (the bicycle chain).
No wonder these kids have no hope within themselves.
That is a distinct, discrete issue.
Thay may very well reject their parents' views,
and make their own assessments and plans.
It wud not be new for a kid to disagree with his parents.

Yes, but I do think it takes an extremely strong person to rise above abuse to the point that they have not internalized some of its' negative effects in terms of what a person believes about him or herself. And until that person has another experience with different people who are telling him or her that s/he is a good person, with talents and skills and is worth more than the piece of trash that he or she has been treated like an entire lifetime-it's hard for that person to conceptualize a different, more positive view.
I think what people need to understand is that these people are traumatized and often, depressed. I can't even tell you what spending even one day in the harsh, poverty stricken environments they spend every waking minute in would do to me-because I don't really know.
But I do know that viewing their lives objectively - I thank god for mine.

Quote:

Quote:

But the scariest thing is that when I asked them if they planned to employ
the same kind of "discipline" (which is what they told me it was)
on their children, they said yes, they would... and so the cycle continues.

What is your opinion
of the intelligences of those who announced those plans ?

Some of them are very intelligent - I think it's more about a lack of creativity. I also think it's about bravado. They felt pressured by the presence of the other students there to say, 'hey, I got through it - I think my kid should be able to make it through too.' I bet if we'd been talking one on one the response would have been different.

Quote:

Did thay explain the reason that thay believe this will be good child care

?
You know, in a really sad, twisted way, I think they feel that they have to defend the actions of their parents (abusers), and show pride about where they've come from, and what better way to do that than to say, 'that's what I'd do too.'

Hopefully somewhere along the line, someone will be able to show them another way.

But it bugs me when we talk about 'the poor' as if it's just this mass of streaming humanity who came out of nowhere for no reason. There are reasons we're all dealing with all of this.

Quote:

These kids were laughing and bonding over the fact that their parents' beat the crap out of them while calling them every degrading name you could possibly think of. So, it's not just about neglect, as in neglecting to participate in their lives and educations- it's about abuse- it's about beating them down- not just leaving them alone.
And it didn't seem to be different among the races, in fact one of the white boys described what sounded to be the most brutal abuse from his father (the bicycle chain).
No wonder these kids have no hope within themselves.
That is a distinct, discrete issue.
Thay may very well reject their parents' views,
and make their own assessments and plans.
It wud not be new for a kid to disagree with his parents.

Quote:

Yes, but I do think it takes an extremely strong person to rise above abuse to the point that they have not internalized some of its' negative effects in terms of what a person believes about him or herself. And until that person has another experience with different people who are telling him or her that s/he is a good person, with talents and skills and is worth more than the piece of trash that he or she has been treated like an entire lifetime-it's hard for that person to conceptualize a different, more positive view.

I agree with the value of praise.
However, when u say that,
I am reminded that contrarywise,
while walking home from school with classmates who lived in the same direction
a boy my age from 8 to 13 years old ( several times, with different classmates )
some of them having them ask me to spank them.
I found this very strange; this is the opposite desire of what u said
about the value of praising him.
I never complied.

Quote:

I think what people need to understand is that these people are traumatized and often, depressed. I can't even tell you what spending even one day in the harsh, poverty stricken environments they spend every waking minute in would do to me-because I don't really know.
But I do know that viewing their lives objectively - I thank god for mine.

Quote:

Enuf to raise His name to a capital initial ?

Quote:

But the scariest thing is that when I asked them if they planned to employ
the same kind of "discipline" (which is what they told me it was)
on their children, they said yes, they would... and so the cycle continues.

What is your opinion
of the intelligences of those who announced those plans ?

Some of them are very intelligent - I think it's more about a lack of creativity. I also think it's about bravado. They felt pressured by the presence of the other students there to say, 'hey, I got through it - I think my kid should be able to make it through too.'

I bet if we'd been talking one on one the response would have been different.

Did thay explain the reason that thay believe this will be good child care

You know, in a really sad, twisted way, I think they feel that they have to defend the actions of their parents (abusers), and show pride about where they've come from, and what better way to do that than to say, 'that's what I'd do too.'

Hopefully somewhere along the line,
someone will be able to show them another way.

But it bugs me when we talk about 'the poor'
as if it's just this mass of streaming humanity who came out of nowhere for no reason.

There are reasons we're all dealing with all of this.

I agree with the value of praise.
However, when u say that,
I am reminded that contrarywise,
while walking home from school with classmates who lived in the same direction
a boy my age from 8 to 13 years old ( several times, with different classmates )
some of them having them ask me to spank them.
I found this very strange; this is the opposite desire of what u said
about the value of praising him.
I never complied.

Quote:

I think what people need to understand is that these people are traumatized and often, depressed. I can't even tell you what spending even one day in the harsh, poverty stricken environments they spend every waking minute in would do to me-because I don't really know.
But I do know that viewing their lives objectively - I thank god for mine.

Quote:

Enuf to raise His name to a capital initial ?

If I raised his name to a capital letter, then I'd feel that I was taking it in vain (conditioning from my own upbringing) and I'd feel guilty about saying it at all. I really shouldn't say it- but as a girl raised in NJ during the time I was raised- it became pretty much embedded in my particular lexicon. It's lazy, I know...but I don't know what to replace it with- "Honest to goodness" or "boy howdy" -what would you suggest?

Quote:

But the scariest thing is that when I asked them if they planned to employ
the same kind of "discipline" (which is what they told me it was)
on their children, they said yes, they would... and so the cycle continues.

What is your opinion
of the intelligences of those who announced those plans ?

Quote:

I bet if we'd been talking one on one the response would have been different.

The judgette who told me of the cruel Puerto Rican practices,
that she knew in childhood ( cleverly devised to inflict pain n terror )
was alone with me when she told me of it.

Quote:

Did thay explain the reason that thay believe this will be good child care

?

Quote:

You know, in a really sad, twisted way, I think they feel that they have to defend the actions of their parents (abusers), and show pride about where they've come from, and what better way to do that than to say, 'that's what I'd do too.'

I wish I had been able to inquire of them
as to their opinions of sadism.

Hopefully somewhere along the line,
someone will be able to show them another way.

Quote:

But it bugs me when we talk about 'the poor'
as if it's just this mass of streaming humanity who came out of nowhere for no reason.

R thay poor ?

Do the rich treat their children better ?[/b][/color]

Quote:

There are reasons we're all dealing with all of this.

Yeah and there is a reason that I 'm going to get some good seafood.

Last week, Donald Maynard, a black firefighter-paramedic, confessed to having placed the noose, note and drawing depicting a lynching on a bunk in the firehouse. City officials said Mr. Maynard was recently suspended, prior to his confession, from the department Friday for failing to meet requirements for advanced life-saving training. A spokesman for Mayor Dixon said there would be no criminal charges filed.

Snood
I did not say nor do I expect it to come from Obama but you can bet it will come from elements in the black community.

Quote:

Last week, Donald Maynard, a black firefighter-paramedic, confessed to having placed the noose, note and drawing depicting a lynching on a bunk in the firehouse. City officials said Mr. Maynard was recently suspended, prior to his confession, from the department Friday for failing to meet requirements for advanced life-saving training. A spokesman for Mayor Dixon said there would be no criminal charges filed.

I question why this was not judged a hate crime since it was intended to stir up racial questions and problems.

Snood
I did not say nor do I expect it to come from Obama but you can bet it will come from elements in the black community.

Quote:

Last week, Donald Maynard, a black firefighter-paramedic, confessed to having placed the noose, note and drawing depicting a lynching on a bunk in the firehouse. City officials said Mr. Maynard was recently suspended, prior to his confession, from the department Friday for failing to meet requirements for advanced life-saving training. A spokesman for Mayor Dixon said there would be no criminal charges filed.

I question why this was not judged a hate crime since it was intended to stir up racial questions and problems.

It's like this woman I work for says: "If you keep on doing what you've always done- you'll keep on getting what you've always gotten".