The US Economy

Sorry, c.i. , that just don't cut it. With the largest proportion of individual home ownership (which happens also to be trending upward) in the world, over 80 Million Americans (and growing ... having more than doubled in percentage over the past generation) invested in the stock market either through plans or direct investment, the largest-in-the-world per-capita ownership of telephones, televisions, automobiles, microwave ovens, second homes, recreational vehicles,and designer jeans, among damned near everything else that can be bought, an acknowledged and widely lamented propensity for obesity, and more amusement-parks-per-citizen than anywhere else in the world, there isn't enough of the straw you just grasped at to make a decent voodoo doll, let alone an entire straw man. A reasonable hypothesis for the increase in defaults would be that lower rates and the attendant relaxed lending policies made more credit available to more folks who couldn't handle it, who then proceeded to prove they coudn't handle it. Another factor is an accelleration of filings in advance of pending regulations which will reduce the advantage to be gained from frivolous filings. You just don't have an argument. You don't even have a good "Yeah, but ... "

I'm not into "yeah, buts...." What I stated are "facts." However you may wish to interpret that is up to the reader. I think everybody can come to their own conclusions without your .02c.

Ahhh, mebbe I was a little heavy there ... sorry, didn't really mean to jump on you. Of course you're entitled to argue your point. I just don't buy your argument ... not even for $0.02 :wink:

And besides, "My facts can beat up your facts!"

Your priviledge - like everybody else that reads it.

Here's a link about bankruptcies in the US.
http://www.timesizing.com/1bankrup.htm
With the loss of jobs in during the first half of 2003, I would suspect that the bankruptcy rate has "increased" over 2002. That's only a personal opinion; no numbers to show.

I think the proper argument for a liberal to make here -- unfortunately Tart didn't make it -- would have been that the poverty of a state can have two opposing effects on charitable giving. Because donors are poorer, less money is potentially available for donations, causing them to diminish. On the other hand, recipients are poorer too, increasing the need for donations and causing them to rise. Which effect dominates is an empirical question we can't answer based on inter-state comparisons alone. I'd be interested in seing how charitable giving depends on individual income within a given state. Do you have such data, timber?

ci, Bankruptcies are as much self induced as they are brought about by outside reasons such as job loss or bad economy. I don't put much stock in the those statistics anymore for it doesn't really take into account irresponsibility.

Many of those companies were probably new start up's that simply never got off the ground, and it's been my experience that rarely is one started with sufficient capital. Banks and the SBA have a bad habit of supposedly helping people go into business, but in reality their just giving enough rope to hang themselves.

In terms of perceptions of economic policies, this latest neat graph from pollingreport:



"Thinking about the following characteristics and qualities, please say whether you think it applies or doesn't apply to George W. Bush. How about [see below]?"

"Cares about the needs of people like you"

November 2003
Applies 49%
Doesn't Apply 50%

June 2003
Applies 57%
Doesn't Apply 42%

April 2003
Applies 65%
Doesn't Apply 34%

Clearly the pollsters are asking the wrong people. :wink:

LOL!

There's more though ...

"Can get the economy moving"

Applies 48%
Doesn't apply 50%

"Is in touch with the problems ordinary Americans face in their daily lives"

Applies 42%
Doesn't apply 57%

Bush also has a slight majority against him on the criterium "Generally agrees with you on issues you care about", but a slight majority for him on "Shares your values".

Furthermore, he still does very well on "Is a strong and decisive leader" (66% vs 34%) - not as good as in April anymore, but still better than back in 2001;

and he still has the edge on "Is honest and trustworthy" (59% vs 40%), though his ratings on that count are rapidly going down and now at their lowest yet.

All @ http://www.pollingreport.com/bush.htm

You know, I checked your PollingReport link, and I kept waiting to see which poll would ask people what they think of the Intelligence committee memo... how serious do you think it is? should someone face criminal charges? should there be a special prosecutor? etc., but I found no questions about it at all. Strange, don't you think?

Brand X, I have not commented on the positives on the issue of more American's ability to buy homes. That should be obvious without mention. New homes means more jobs for all the industries that produces products for building those homes, furniture, and appliances. As for personal responsibility, that's been my mantra for the major part of my adult life; that's the reason why I believe the politics of most GOP convictions are a good balance for the overly-liberal ideas of the democratic party. Since I'm unable to stomach either extreme, I have labeled myself a moderate.

nimh, That Gallop poll graph on GWBush is timely; it looks like a christmas tree.

This may be the only country where one can borrow $1 million and boast of being a millionaire. People do it, companies do it and the government does it too. The trick is making the payments.
Personal bankruptcies in the US rose 7.8 percent in the 12 months ending September 30, Associated Press reported

dys, The federal government 'borrows' billions, but before they realize it, we might be talking "real" money.

Pollingreport.com is just this website - they dont do polling of their own.
Its a portal on polls - it seems to list all the polls they can get their hands on, whether its CBS, CNN, Gallup, Fox, Zogby or this or that university ... No agenda there.

Well, there's the agenda of getting you to subscribe by keeping the more specific poll results (state-by-state on the Democratic contenders, for example) in the "paid only" section ... ;-)

nimh obviously doesn't know what is happening in the US economy. In the Netherlands their economy is limited to pornography and Wooden Shoes.

Nimh does not know, obviously, that according to the recent poll by the Marist College Institute for Public Opinion, among registered voters( the only ones that really count) Bush has a 51% approval rating against a 46% disapproval rating.

Nimh may not know that anytime an incumbent scores over 50% approval, he is doing quite well.

Nimh may not know that the political Pundits predict that Bush will raise over 170 Million for his race next year.

This compars to 25 Million for Dean who is already bloodied by his competitors.

I have contributed to the Dean race since I think that his selection by the Democrats to face Bush would be one of the best things to happen to America.

Dean has gone out on a long and shaky limb to state that if he became president he would REPEAL all of Bush's tax cuts.

Hooray!!!
Just the position he needs to take to sink irrevocably in the mire with Senator McGovern.

Nimh may not be aware that the Unemployment rate in the US is now- 6.0%. Nimh may not be aware that Unemployment is always a trailing index.

Nimh may not be aware that the GDP soared to a 6.8% level for the third quarter of 2003.

I have found that most left wingers have a very very poor background in Economics.

Do they teach Economics in the Netherlands?

I am sure that the Germans( with their idiotic coalition governments which insure that nothing can ever be done) don't know much about Economics since if they did they would not have an enormous 10% Unemployment level.

But back to economics.

I am sure that Nimh does not know that the deficits and the total debt is only as important as its ratio to the total GDP.

Most left wingers are totally oblivious of that fact when they drone on about the deficit and the debt.

In every dictatorship wealth is a sacred thing, in democracies it is the only scared thing.
Anatole France