Children Born in US of Illegal Immigrants

But CJ, the problem is that for each one who is living in the US illegally, there is another one who is trying to immigrate legally.

Why reward those who jump the queue? That's not fair.

If you take the immigration policy out of it and just consider the people involved - Maria and Jose jumping the queue vs Enrico & Isabella doing their paperwork - you'll see where I'm coming from re the unfairness of it.

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McGentrix wrote:

No and yes.

No, they should NOT be permitted to stay because they have children who are American citizens. They chose a risky lifestyle, they should face the consequences.

Yes, children of illegal aliens born in the US be conferred automatic US citizenship. And when they are old enough to take care of themselves, they will have that citizenship to fall back on.

If a parent robs a bank, we have no sympathy for them and their family, why should we for people that commit other crimes?

I agree 100%. These "parents" (I put parents in quotes because to me they are not being responsible) are doing something illegal. They do something illegal they suffer the conquences - simply because they have children should not exempt them from punishment under what the law states.

Otherwise, every parent should have free reign from any punishment when they break the law.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Should children of illegal aliens born in the US be conferred automatic US citizenship? .

Phoenix32890 wrote:

I really question the issue of granting citizenship to a child who was brought into the country by an illegal alien, and born here.

Phoenix, you cannot be this unfair.

I've seen you somewhere asking for the laws to be enforced.

These laws were made by the people you voted for.

I agree if there are laws, they should be enforced.

But questionning the laws because they are not enforced doesn't make sense.

American laws grants American citizenship to every child born on the American territory.

Why shouldn't you want this law to be enforced?

And why should an American citizen be deported to a foreign country?

Just because he/she is underaged?

Or just because his/her parents had an ulterior motive when giving birth on the US territory?

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Sglass wrote:

Guest Worker status - interesting concept. I haven't read the whole thread which may explain it CJane.

Exactly how does in work, how long has it been in place in Germany and is it done in other countries.

Another thought I had is how do illegal immigrants form their own lobby and petition the powers that be for this sort of accomendation?

They are here, their presence is allowed in many instances because of the services they perform.

It's been done throughout Europe, Seaglass. Guest workers have a work
permit for a number of years, pay their taxes and receive all the benefits
that the system allows. After expiration of their work permit, they either
can extend it or go back to their country. However, while they're in
Germany these guest workers, along with their families will benefit from
the system.

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makes sense to me Cjane. but try to explain that to a system that obviously does not want to listen.

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Mame wrote:

But CJ, the problem is that for each one who is living in the US illegally, there is another one who is trying to immigrate legally.

Why reward those who jump the queue? That's not fair.

If you take the immigration policy out of it and just consider the people involved - Maria and Jose jumping the queue vs Enrico & Isabella doing their paperwork - you'll see where I'm coming from re the unfairness of it.

Mame, in principle I agree with you. Reality is a different matter - we have
illegal immigrants and they're part of the infra structure. You will never get
rid of illegal immigration in the US, even if you're building a 20 ft. high
fence. What I am saying is: deal with the problem, incorporate these people (who are mostly hard working) into the system, and allow them to pay taxes and receive benefits. We wouldn't have this conversation, if they were able to contribute to the system.

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Well, it is all said already, I think.

I just want to add that it seems more than unfair if not unlawful if a citizen of a state can be deported only because her/his parents aren't citizens of that country.

At least, it would be unconstituional in ALL constitutions I can imagine.

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Mame wrote:

But CJ, the problem is that for each one who is living in the US illegally, there is another one who is trying to immigrate legally.

Why reward those who jump the queue? That's not fair.

If you take the immigration policy out of it and just consider the people involved - Maria and Jose jumping the queue vs Enrico & Isabella doing their paperwork - you'll see where I'm coming from re the unfairness of it.

I don't know exactly how it works in Canada, but for the people we are talking about in the US, the queue doesn't exist. Or to be more accurate, they're not allowed in it. The problem I have with this argument is that it assumes that if these people just filled out the paperwork and stood in the right lines they'd be able to come legally. That isn't the case.

And with regard to the harsh judgment of the parents for taking the risk in the first place, I can say without hesitation that I would do exactly the same thing in their shoes. We all want a better life for our children. We all believe that our children have just as much a right to a better life as any other children. And no laws can tell us otherwise.

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FreeDuck wrote:

And with regard to the harsh judgment of the parents for taking the risk in the first place, I can say without hesitation that I would do exactly the same thing in their shoes. We all want a better life for our children. We all believe that our children have just as much a right to a better life as any other children. And no laws can tell us otherwise.

Actually, ius soli was - and is - common in countries that want to develop and increase their own population figure .... with own citizens.

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Well, to be sure I don't know any of the ins and outs of US immigration policies, but it certainly seems to be a hot topic in the US.

Does the short-term answer lie in assisting Mexico to the point where they don't want to leave their country?

I do believe we will eventually be a global world with people living all over the place sans paperwork...

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Mame wrote:

Well, to be sure I don't know any of the ins and outs of US immigration policies, but it certainly seems to be a hot topic in the US.

Does the short-term answer lie in assisting Mexico to the point where they don't want to leave their country?

Yes, though I guess that's actually more a long term answer. The fact is that at least some of our prosperity is due to global inequity, and because of this inequity, people come here to get a piece of that pie. Because of this inequity, the pie-eaters want to protect that pie. Over time we'll reach an equilibrium and then everyone can have pie. How long that will take I have no idea.

Quote:

I do believe we will eventually be a global world with people living all over the place sans paperwork...

Same here.

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Mame wrote:

Well, to be sure I don't know any of the ins and outs of US immigration policies, but it certainly seems to be a hot topic in the US.

Does the short-term answer lie in assisting Mexico to the point where they don't want to leave their country?

I do believe we will eventually be a global world with people living all over the place sans paperwork...

Not really. Mexico is rich in natural resources, it could export large quantities and prosper. The real problem is the corruption of its official government,
the uneven distribution of wealth and the millions of people who are dirt poor. Also, we're not dealing with Mexico alone, a huge number of illegals come
from other parts of South America.

We cannot change the ways of another country, we only can change our
own. As I said previously, giving them guest worker status, allowing them
to pay taxes and receive benefits, will help us more in the long run, than
deporting a few thousands here and there, while they come back ten-folds.

If we give the illegals currently in the US guest worker status and benefits,
but will deny any benefits and work to the ones who won't file for a guest
worker status, they will have no means to stay in this country.

As it is now, they are illegally in this country, work without contributing
any taxes but do receive benefits, as free healthcare in hospitals, free
schooling and free of taxes. Think of the revenues we're losing while ignoring the problem altogether, and think how easy it would be to change their status from illegal to guest worker.

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So why hasn't this easy solution been done? Is it because people are against it? Or is it reluctance on the govt's part?

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While immigartion laws can be changed, altered, deleted - this seems to be a bit more difficult with the Fourteenth Amendment , where the ius soli got constituional character:

"1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
... ... ..."

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Calamity make a good point about the usually ignored responsibility of the governments and societies south of our border for the huge disparity in standard of living of people on the two sides of the border. Interestingly, while the Mexican government harrangues ours about withholding any social services from illegal immigrants, it actively enforces reverse discrimination on its side of the border. An American seeking employment in Mexico must satisfy the government that no Mexican is readily able to perform the job in question.

At the same time we should recognize that the United States was built on immigration and the issues surrounding the current influx of Central Americans are not very different in kind or texture from those surrounding the earlier waves of German, Irish, Italian, Jewish, and Polish immigrants who came here earlier. Everything we hear about the social harm caused by Mexican immigrants was said before about others. The bad effects proved to be all transient, and the benefits lasting.

We have only ourselves to blame for failing to erect and enforce a coherent set of laws governing the current wave of immigration.

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georgeob1 wrote:

An American seeking employment in Mexico must satisfy the government that no Mexican is readily able to perform the job in question.

Do you think getting an H/L/O/P/Q-visa is just another formality?

[200,000 Americans living illegally in Mexico is really a low number.]

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No I don't. However we (unlike Mexico) don't insist that others drop their requirements for Americans. That is the point here.

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Mame wrote:

So why hasn't this easy solution been done? Is it because people are against it? Or is it reluctance on the govt's part?

Politics, my dear, it's all politics! The issue has been addressed,
then tabled, re-addressed, re-tabled, and so on.

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The solution is quite simple, at least to me.

I have said it before and I will say it again.

ANY person here illegally and that has US born children will be given a CHOICE (that means the parents decide and live with their choice, the govt isnt telling them what to do).

The parent can be deported and choose to have their child lose their US citizenship and be deported with them.

OR

Teh parent can decide that its more important that the child be an American citizen.
If the parent chooses that option, the child stays in the US and the parent is deported.

Either way, the parent gets deported, but the parent decides what happens to the child.

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MM, your "solution" is unconstitutional.

A child born in the US is constitutionally (as upheld by the Supreme Court at least twice) as US citizen.

The parent doesn't even have the right to take that away.

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Children Born in US of Illegal Immigrants

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