Widower having a relationship with a widow

What does she have to do, spell it out for you in mile high letters? She is not interested. Let go.

I know. Funny thing is I actually don't mind the loneliness - I guess I got overexcited with everything else.

I don't suppose you can offer me any words of advice on what to do next? I really have no idea what to do? I mean, was this a get off I'm not interested or maybe, maybe, there is a glimpse of hope we can actually keep on talking or writing to each other and things might move on from there?

Thanks Phoenix. I asked for that.

jmedeiros- What you need to do next is to reinvent yourself. You have had a number of years living with a woman that you loved. Now you need to enjoy your own company, and pursue your own interests.

Unless a woman is a sicko, neediness in a man is a real turn off. Develop yourself, and learn to enjoy being alone. THEN you will find that women will find you interesting.

I agree. Instead of desperately seeking someone to fill the lonliness, learn to be comfortable with and by yourself.

I mostly agree, but not entirely. I don't pick up that she won't ever be interested in him, maybe I missed it, just for sure not now - may never, but maybe not never.
Certainly don't pursue her.

I agree with letting it go and developing being himself by himself, in company of friends too.

Neediness and loneliness don't have to be killers of possible relationships.
Most of us were to some extent needy of real love when we met our real loves. It's the needy and lonely directed near-stalking that can put a real freeze on what could develop. Time can be a great weaver of healing and introspection... as we all know.

I am lonely - have been physically for the last 3 months and fighting in my mind for almost 5 years with what I knew was going to happen but never really could get round to accept.

We didn't speak much about the "after life" for me not because Lisa didn't want to but because I didn't let her. In my mind accepting that was accepting defeat and I wanted to be strong for her.

Lisa once told me that I would meet someone nice one day after she'd be gone and she would be really beautiful and intelligent and I would be happy again. Well the crap thing is it happened just like that - no plan no looking out and certainly no eagerness.

Me and my lady friend we both were really happy over it. The first time I went round to see her I wasn't prepared to let it go that far and to be completely honest I was slightly afraid of what could happen. I ended up staying for the night and it was really good.

I know you can't make people do what they don't want to and any relationship that's based on that is wrong and eventually will end up in tears sooner or later.

You have all been good - really good - and so straight to the point that it hurts. I wouldn't want it any other way because that's why I've come here and not to other forums where I could have gotten a lot of sympathy and hugs and "we're all feeling sorry for you" sort of stuff.

Truth is I'm lost! Screwed up to the last cell in my brains and have been for the last 3 months even more. I swing from being a romantic person to being a rational and analytical mind. I wouldn't do much good in my job if I didn't!

I believe in love and I want to be happy again. I hate being lonely in the sense I'm not sharing my life with someone I love and care for.

I'm taking all this advice in and I'm really glad I came here. You have probably helped me more in these last few days than all the "nice people" I spoke to in the last 3 months.

jmedeiros -- first of all, welcome to A2K.

I am a widow, 4 years now, and not looking for a relationship. However, shortly after being widowed I joined an online forum (something like this one but specifically for widow/ers with a membership of over 5000 people), and had the benefit of seeing a vast array of grief permutations. Those are my credentials for the following.

Generalities that I noticed from the online group:

Men do seem to be more proactive than women, and seem to need a new relationship faster than women. In fact, statistically, fewer widows remarry than widowers -- some from circumstances, some from inclinations. But both suffer greatly from "skin hunger" and we watched many (mostly men) rush into relationships that were not good, because of it.

As you know, the grief comes in waves. There is commonly a big one at the 6 month mark, and a huge one at the one year mark. (You mentioned that she had been widowed for a year.) This may or may not be true for each individual, but it is very common. In between the waves, you feel almost normal again, like you can do things and move on -- until the next wave knocks you off your feet.

The second year is in some ways harder -- there may still be some "firsts" to go through (the first anniversary, birthday, child's accomplishment, holiday, etc. without the spouse, and "seconds" are a bitch slap of reality, too) but most of the family/friends/institutional support has been withdrawn.

Widow/ers with small children are emotionally swamped -- dealing with their own grief, their children's, and trying to be both mother & father. They take longer to find some equilibrium in their lives.

So, I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying here, but with one caveat. Grievers sometimes get scared of their emotions and try to hide. She probably is not interested in an intimate relationship with you, but there is the chance that she's frightened, of herself. The best thing, I think, for both her and you (because you might find that your head gets screwed up, too) is to give some space, but let her know that you are there for her, as a friend, as someone who has gone through a similar experience, when and if she needs you. Give her a call, as a friend, every so often, just to see how she is doing. You may find that you also need to talk, and she can provide support for you.

Hang in there, Joao.

Stick around the forum if you feel like it - there are many forum categories, as you can see by perusing the forum index. Check out light threads and heavy threads (heavy=politics). You might not feel like posting, but then again, you might.

Great post from Tico, that makes a lot of sense to me.

Joao--

You sound like a man who wants a nest but who had no idea of how to select twigs or start the weaving.

Get specific. What sort of twigs do you want? What interests would you like to share?

Hey Noddy,

I'm confused now... Share interests with whom? My lady friend?

Joao--

Right now you need lots of Lady Friends--and perhaps some men friends as well. Caring for your wife--which you did lovingly and willingly--constricted your world considerably.

You found a "soulmate" and are absolutely kerfoodled about what she could mean when she tells you she doesn't want to get in a serious relationship right now.

Emotionally you're back at the Going Steady time of life. Your emotional security seems to depend on a Steady--whether or not the potential Steady is ready.

Branch out. Discover a wider world. Become a more complicated man. The more you bring to a relationship, the less likely you are to come across as needy and greedy.

Ouch! That hurts!

There's something about coming to places like this and talk about my troubles I could never understand. I guess it's because when you talk to perfect strangers - people you're unlikely ever to meet in real life - it somehow makes it easier to reveal something about yourself you're otherwise afraid to show.

I have received a lot of good advice here and some of them were so crude but still so right and others very supportive. I know I need both so I can make my mind up and move on.

I appreciate you replying to my post and I hope you don't get offended or put off by choosing not to reply to any of my posts in the future but the truth is I'm neither of those things you said about me.

I know people who are in denial often do that but I know myself better than anyone and if there's anything I dislike most about people, especially in a relationship, is being needy as it normally means there's only one pushing the boat.

I am a very generous man. I'm at that stage in my life where I most want to give and share - not just the material things - but life and dreams and whatever makes a relationship last and reinvent itself every day.

Anyway, thanks for letting me reflect on that.

Joao, how you feel about yourself and how you present yourself to others may not always be in sync. Earlier I surmised that you are lonely. That loneliness also comes across as neediness and perhaps greediness of someone else's time.

Perhaps your lady friend perceived similar traits and decided that your needs were more than she was able to meet at this point in her own attempts to begin to include others in her emotional life.

Perceptions are just that. They may reflect the message you are trying to send or they may not. Joining a bereavement support group is wonderful. Socializing with people who all understand what you are going through is equally wonderful. Becoming romantically involved with someone in that same group is a double edged sword. On the one hand they understand your memories and pain but on the other they have their own memories and pain to deal with. And yet, we have had people come here who were having issues with romantic involvements with widows or widowers because they were at odds with themselves over competing with a metaphorical ghost.

There's no simple answer, but it seems as if you're rushing things and were coming on too strongly or quickly with your lady friend. It seems as if you have a large hole to fill in your life and are perhaps looking for someone else to fill it. A person struggling with their own grief can hardly be expected to have the energy to give the kind of support you seem to be looking for.

I'm sure you are a generous and loving man. I'm also sure you have needs that aren't being met. Is it possible that the message your lady friend heard was the needy one rather than the generous one?

It's entirely possible JPB and that's why I've come here looking for answers. The kind of experiences I'm going through you don't learn anywhere else except by living through them.

I made a number of mistakes I'm trying to rectify - whether it may be because I want to fight over it or because I want to get over it. Either way if there's something I've learned is that I must accept my new life just the way it is and to learn to accept myself and all the changes I've gone through.

That has made me a stronger man but I have a soft heart and I get lead often by it. I know I need to balance that side of my personality. I guess you could say I'm a romantic at heart.

Thanks,
Joao

I'm doing that tonight

Thanks,
Joao

Joao--



It is more blessed to give than to receive and sharing is best of all--just don't push.

Have a good time tonight. Socializing is very educational.

Thank you. I don't know where you guys are but here in the UK is past 4PM so I better head off to my evening.

Thanks,
Joao

things are scary when you are widowed
I myself have been widowed for over 3 and a half years. I am just recently feeling interested in having a relationship again. The first man that I talked to on the phone got the most drama from me. I freaked out after a great conversation and told him that he moved too fast for me. He had sent me several emails and I.M.s the very next day and it started making me very nervous and the guilt feelings came out. I cried for two days! Widows have grief guilt. It is real and it is difficult to come out of. It is caused when we finally see ourselves feeling happy again. If you give her time and let her come to you she may come around eventually. Turn it into friendship and let her make the rules. Stop with the flowers already! That would scare me to death! Call her and tell her that you want to hear from her and that you just want to be her friend. Help her to relax around you and you will become her best friend. Let her talk about her late husband without "the look" that others seem to give.

I have a great new friend who allows me to talk about whatever. He has agreed to be my friend and it does help that he is a widower as well. We laugh and talk for over an hour each conversation. Knowing when to back off is key! Tell her that you want to be her friend and then give her a week or more to think it over with the agreement that she will call you one way or the other when the week is over.

Best Wishes!