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Sun 14 Oct, 2007 11:19 pm
At the moment in school we were asked to do a research assessment, we had to choose 4 books and relate how they were similar, and how they portrayed the idea of " the use and abuse of power". In my research I did the main theme of racism and the Ku Klux Klan came up abit in my books and research. This opened my eyes, I saw what my, our, past contained and I was disgusted, as a human being I was ashamed at what we could do to one another, I cant see how we could try to kill a whole race or exclude a race becuase of there skin colour.
I watched a movie a few nights ago, Fried Green Tomatos and The Whistle Stop, and I saw visually what happened and that hit me evener harder, I suppose what I'm getting at is why did we do this, why did people like the KKK or Hilter single out races and kill, toture and humiliate them, why did we allow this to happen for so long, couldn't something have been done to stop or prevent this
I m young, 17, and you may see me a ignorant but please can anyone give me answers to what would drive people to do this, to become an animal and cause such pain and hate in our world and why is it still happening today.
Because the veiner of civilization is thin.
I can just as rationally ask you: why do expect a higher level of civility?
Historical memory is selective.
We are genetically predisposed, as research show, to remember negative events far more sharply (perhaps a survival instinct).
The 'good' history is uninteresting to historians. That doesn't mean it is not 'out there', it's just recorded less. Most of the time in human history we spend in peace. Think of your own life. But we remember war and conflict. So it goes. We do not live in especially 'dark times'.
dagmaraka wrote:We are genetically predisposed, as research show, to remember negative events far more sharply
Contemporary popular culture decade nostalgia suggests otherwise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decade_nostalgia#Staples_of_1950s_nostalgia
I think you mistook me or I didnt write this out right but what I mean is what would drive people to do what they did
Dartboy wrote:I think you mistook me or I didnt write this out right but what I mean is what would drive people to do what they did
Two things,
Suvival of the fittest and fear of the unknown.
dadpad wrote:Dartboy wrote:I think you mistook me or I didnt write this out right but what I mean is what would drive people to do what they did
Two things,
Suvival of the fittest and fear of the unknown.
Fear of the unknown I see but not Suvival of the fittest , are you saying that the white people and Hilter were scared?
YES! you got it right first time.
Hitlers genocide of the Jewish people was a direct response to his perception that the Jews had something to do with the loss of world war 1.
Whites in America were and are still scared of the sheer number of blacks.
Have you ever used a verbal put down or bullied someone you percieve to be weaker than yourself? Ever seen it at school?
Bullying happens for the same reason. I'm bigger and stronger than you and I intend to prove it. Doing this makes me feel more powerfull. Powerfull people attract followers, there is safety in numbers. safety in numbers assists my survival.
I find it amazing that they could think such a thing then do such a thing, doesn't it make you feel sick?
Look for a book called Lord of the Flies By William Golding to see just how quickly we can decend to our basest reactions.
Humans are capable of incredible cruelty and brutality. Modern despotic States are more efficient than in earlier times, but they are no less willing to enslave and murder whole populations. In ancient times it was common for a conquering group to kill all defeated males capable of resistance and to enslave whoever managed to survive the extermination. Civilization took a tiny step forward when the defeated were "merely" deprived of their self-determination and taxed into abject poverty. Rome was built more on blood and brutality than on mortar and brick.
Until the Industrial Revolution almost everything had to be accomplished by muscle power. Humans are easier to communicate with than mules, so slavery existed in virtually every part and corner of the world. Slaves are dangerous and Masters sleep better when they believe that their human chattel are cowed and incapable of rebellion. To accomplish that, Masters tended to dehumanize their slaves as something less than human.
Chauvinism must have been one of the first characteristics of human organization. "We are the People, everyone else is something less." "Our survival depends upon absolute control over our territory, and the more territory we control, the better The People will prosper". "Our Gods are better than the Idols of those semi-human barbarians who live on the other side of the river." How many generations of Homo Sapiens have there been? Chauvinism was regarded as a virtue by most people up until the middle of the 20th century. Hitler was just a dramatic wakeup call about what chauvinism is capable of when a dictator has the technical capability of actualizing a "final solution". Genocide is a modern word, and it isn't likely to become an obsolete term for a long time to come.
When young people become aware of just how "evil" our species is capable of there is a tendency to become cynical. There are two basic responses to learning that we humans aren't angels. Probably the most common is to dedicate ourselves to avoiding past wrongs and injustices. "We will never tolerate prejudice, oppression, or injustice." The young have been making that vow for thousands of years, and there has been some progress. It hasn't been politically correct to massacre a defeated population for at least a thousand years, even if it is still being done today. Once steam and electricity became available to power machines, slavery has fallen out of fashion in Western nations, though it quietly survives in other parts of the world. Laws intended to subjugate a whole demographic no longer exist in the United States, but prejudice remains embedded in the hearts of Whites and Blacks alike.
Idealistic movements and political theories have great appeal to those who are impatient with the slowness of change. "We will construct a perfect society, but first we must eliminate all those who contribute to the problems that beset us today." Sound familiar? Whether the "bad guys" are Christians/Muslims/Jews, Blacks, Capitalists, Communists, or whatever, there is a tendency to believe that all will be well if we just get rid of those "others". True Believers are so dedicated to their relentless drive for the perfection they believe is inherent to their belief that they can easily countenance all those terrible things they decry. There is no avoiding the unpleasant fact that human beings are selfish, self-centered, short-sighted, and often plain old unpleasant. Things change, and generally those changes are a mixed blessing. Every benefit also produces a mixed bag of unintended negative consequences.
Want to the change the World? Good, for you. Now ... change yourself, and don't try to force a sapling to produce a sweet and juicy apple.
The world could be much better if every one simply focuses on making a better self. Always try to be someone who deserves a better world.
Dartboy wrote:I think you mistook me or I didnt write this out right but what I mean is what would drive people to do what they did
I did not misunderstand you and I gave a plausible answer when I said "Because the veiner of civilization is thin".
Again I ask: "why do expect a higher level of civility?" This question could just as aptly be asked as "why don't you expect a lower level of civility?"
One possibility that has been assiduously avoided here (probably a reflection of the secular majority on A2K - not that there's anything wrong with that) is that there might exist in the world real evil - there might exist a desire in the hearts of some men at some times to do harm to others with NO justification or scientific explanation.
snood wrote:One possibility that has been assiduously avoided here (probably a reflection of the secular majority on A2K - not that there's anything wrong with that) is that there might exist in the world real evil - there might exist a desire in the hearts of some men at some times to do harm to others with NO justification or scientific explanation.
of course it exists... and is very much in practice all over the world in varying degrees of severity.
J-B wrote:The world could be much better if every one simply focuses on making a better self. Always try to be someone who deserves a better world.
but do not expect to get it......
One possibility that has been assiduously avoided here is that green Jello appears on the dark side of the moon once every 1000 years for a nanosecond, and it is this recurring green Jello causing real evil and the desire in the hearts of some men at some times to do harm to others with NO justification or scientific explanation.
By way of an answer from my own corner, here's an bit of Burroughs for you.
William S. Burroughs wrote:At Los Alamos Ranch School, where they later made the atom bomb and couldn't wait to drop it on the Yellow Peril, the boys are sitting on logs and rocks, eating some sort of food.
There is a stream at the end of a slope.
The counsellor was a Southerner with a politician's look about him. He told us stories by the campfire, culled from the racist garbage of the insidious Sax Rohmer - East is evil, West is good.
Suddenly a badger erupts among the boys - don't know why he did it, just playful, friendly and inexperienced, like the Aztec Indians who brought fruit down to the Spanish and got their hands cut off. So the counsellor rushes for his saddlebag and gets out his 1911 Colt .45 auto and starts blasting at the badger, missing it with every shot at six feet. Finally he puts his gun three inches from the badger's side and shoots. This time the badger rolls down the slope, into the stream. I can see the stricken animal, the sad shrinking face, rolling down the slope, bleeding, dying.
"You see an animal you kill it don't you? It might have bitten one of the boys."
The badger just wanted to romp and play, and he gets shot with a .45 government issue. Contact that. Identify with that. Feel that. And ask yourself. Whose life is worth more? The badger, or this evil piece of white ****?
As Brian Gyson says, man is a bad animal.
I've no doubt there is evil (however we define it) in the world, but great evil deeds are only accomplished through the complicity of many people. It's not so much Hitler who scares me, but that so many people followed him.
I am not so sure that the US's WW II development of atomic weapons is a very good example of general populace complicity. In fact the Manhattan project was set up so that very few knew the whole and true nature of the effort.
Modern technologies potentially allow the very few to impose on the very many without general populace complicity, so I must disagree that "great evil deeds are
only accomplished through the complicity of many people".
I will go further by claiming that "great evil" can be accomplished through indifference, lack of foresight, ignorance, superstition, good intentions etc.
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Quote:U.S. Air Force General Jack Ripper goes completely and utterly mad, and sends his bomber wing to destroy the U.S.S.R. He suspects that the communists are conspiring to pollute the "precious bodily fluids" of the American people. The U.S. president meets with his advisers, where the Soviet ambassador tells him that if the U.S.S.R. is hit by nuclear weapons, it will trigger a "Doomsday Machine" which will destroy all plant and animal life on Earth. Peter Sellers portrays the three men who might avert this tragedy: British Group Captain Lionel Mandrake, the only person with access to the demented Gen. Ripper; U.S. President Merkin Muffley, whose best attempts to divert disaster depend on placating a drunken Soviet Premier and the former Nazi genius Dr. Strangelove, who concludes that "such a device would not be a practical deterrent for reasons which at this moment must be all too obvious". Will the bombers be stopped in time, or will General Jack Ripper succeed in destroying the world ? Written by Colin Tinto {
[email protected]}
U.S. President Merkin Muffley (Peter Sellers) is on the hot line to Moscow with some rather embarrassing news for the Soviet premier: "Hello, Dimitri....I'm fine....Now then, you know how we've always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with the bomb....The bomb, Dimitri. The hydrogen bomb....Well, now, what happened is that, uh, one of our base commanders...he went a little funny in the head....and he went and did a silly thing....He ordered his planes to attack your country." A comedy about an accidental nuclear attack? One that ends with total annihilation, thermonuclear apocalypse? Preposterous! Stanley Kubrick thought otherwise. In the end his thinking prevailed. The mad saga revolves around a psychotic Strategic Air Command officer, Gen. Jack D. Ripper (Sterling Hayden), who lets loose his B-52 bomber squadron on the Soviet Union. Ripper takes this unilateral action because of his paranoid belief that Communists are sapping and contaminating "all our precious bodily fluids" as part of their plan to take over the world." Unbeknownst to Ripper, his attack will trigger the Russian's ultimate weapon, the Doomsday Machine, a diabolical retaliatory device set to blow up the planet.
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