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Telling My Family I am an Atheist?

 
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 05:07 pm
that's an interesting point. of course, it's possible that the concept of a "soul mate" has evolved to be independant of the concept of a god, even if it evolved directly from that concept.

buddhism doesn't require belief in a god, (buddha wasn't a god, but some people believe was an incarnation of vishnu) but it has a concept of reincarnation borrowed from hinduism. it would be easy for a concept of a soul to follow any belief in reincarnation.

personally, i think even an atheist could believe in a soul of a kind. it would take a lot of heavy conceptualization, but so does consciousness. if consciousness survives, does that mean there is a supreme creator, too?

actually, no. it doesn't mean there is or isn't. if consciousness could exist at all without a god, perhaps it could separate on death and go to another dimension, or even stay in this one while the shell it inhabited rots.

call it science fiction, if it helps. a lot of fiction has come true, even for atheists. if you do a transplant of every organ in your body, up to and including the brain, are you still you? maybe? we don't know for certain. also i think "soul mate" is possibly just a nice way of saying "a person you fit so perfectly that it might as well have been pre-ordained," in which case it's just a matter of language being used in a non-literal way, like how "bread, lettuce, cheddar" all mean "money" in english, "liquid" is french for "cash," and "money" means "successful" or "cool" which means "really good."
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aeroz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 05:59 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
Aeroz--

Your parents raised you according to their own beliefs, but they also gave you both genetically and environmentally the perspective to disagree with them.

They did their best.


I think that at least my dad should have known better, because he is quite intelligent. He's just in deep denial. Any intelligent person should know better than to believe, and indoctrinate children, in superstition and obviously erroneous beliefs.

Quote:
Anger comes from fear. They haven't rejected you yet--but if you approach them with concentrated hostility, they may react unthinkingly.

Why do you have to announce your agnostic beliefs before they meet your boyfriend?


Because my parents will bring it up right away; they want it out in the open. Fundies like to bring up religion before anything else; the first thing they do is pray before dinner. And then its, "God god god god..."

Quote:
Incidently, I'm wryly amused at an agnostic having a soul mate. I'm an agnostic--and and English major--myself and interested in the relationships between language and reality.


I didn't mean it literally. I used it as a cultural reference. I don't really know if we have souls. Thats what we are as agnostics; we aren't sure and can't say one way or the other.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 11:33 am
Aeroz--

You don't want your parents to determine your religious beliefs--or lack of them--but you want to determine theirs.

You may have rejected their beliefs, but you have retained an Old Testament rigor in your approach to other peoples' faiths.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 12:15 pm
Re: Telling My Family I am an Atheist?
Quincy wrote:
As you probably guessed, I am an atheist, and have been for about 3 or 4 years now. My family do not know this yet. Everyone in my extended family is very staunchly Christian, except my father. I have a good relationship with my mother and sister, and I know me telling them I am an atheist will ruin that. Also, I have quite a few friends and acquitances in and through the church. I am afraid this could sour things there too. I hate going to church and acting like I am christian, I need to tell them I am not. I know this would break their hearts, and possibly anger some of them too. If I tell them I am an atheist, I am certain they will spend a lot of time trying to convert me and preach to me, getting people to pray for me and counsel me. I certainly do not want that. How do I break it too my family? I have been meaning to, but it is just such an important topic in my house. Any help please.


I suppose I'm getting hung up on the "staunch Christian" aspect that you speak of. An important foundation of Christianity is forgiveness and understanding so I am unsure why you predict such a bleak outcome. There will likely be some disappointment from them on your decision - however anything beyond that should be theologically in question.

As to them 'getting people to pray for you' - I do not understand how this would affect you since you do not believe in God. I can see why any personal confrontations by those wishing to counsel you would be uncomfortable, however that is easily handled by politely telling them to refrain.

As a Christian - when I put myself in their shoes - I simply do not see what you are afraid is going to happen.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 12:52 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
Aeroz--

You don't want your parents to determine your religious beliefs--or lack of them--but you want to determine theirs.

You may have rejected their beliefs, but you have retained an Old Testament rigor in your approach to other peoples' faiths.


as someone particularly aware of that problem among (some) atheists noddy, i didn't get that from anything aeroz is saying.

i get that she doesn't *respect* her parent's beliefs, but she doesn't think they respect hers- to the point of possibly disowning her. surely there's a bit of room there (even with a complete lack of arrogance) to find them foolish? i don't detect any atheist fundamentalism. you might want to go back and read her first post, on page 2.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 02:46 pm
tinygiraffe--

I'm referring to her firm conviction that she didn't "deserve" a fundamentalist upbringing from her parents.

Quote:
think that at least my dad should have known better, because he is quite intelligent. He's just in deep denial. Any intelligent person should know better than to believe, and indoctrinate children, in superstition and obviously erroneous beliefs.



How dare those people do their best by her in their own way?

How dare they not be atheists?
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 02:53 pm
noddy, how does the feeling or resentment that you were indoctrinated by your parents constitute a fundamentalist, "old testament" approach to atheism?

agreed, they did their best to be good parents. that makes aeroz unreasonable? i don't get it. a crusade against all parents teaching religion might be a little more along the lines of your accusation, but that's clearly not what's going on here. i'm completely sympathetic to what aeroz said.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 06:01 pm
Tinygiraffe--

Perhaps my own demons are complicating my view.

In any case, Aeroz is certainly entitled to her hopes and dreams and grudges. She's the only person who can live in her skin.
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aeroz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 07:20 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
tinygiraffe--

I'm referring to her firm conviction that she didn't "deserve" a fundamentalist upbringing from her parents.


No one deserves a fundamentalist upbringing. I don't think you really understand what that means.

Children are very impressionable and their psyches are delicate. Teach them that there is anything infallible and absolute and 100% certain, and they will grow to need that. Base these beliefs on a foundation of sand (the erroneous "proofs" of fundamentalist doctrines), and you're setting up your child for disaster.

Child grows up, finds out the lies, and the foundation crumbles. The now-adult still needs absolute certainty and the guarantee of life after death in heaven, united with loves ones--but now has no such guarantee. How is the now-adult to deal with his/her own mortality, and the idea that separation from loved ones is surely to occur? There is no tool developed within the psyche to deal with this new pain.

The consequences of teaching a child fundamentalism go beyond the reality of mortality, however. A child raised as a fundamentalist is taught that everyone else is wrong, and is secluded and protected from people different from him or her. A fundamentalist child does not find out about the real world until he or she is an adult and suddenly forced into it. The adjustment is painful, and sometimes does not take place. The now-adult cannot adjust, and develops problems such as inability to hold a job, depression, drug addiction, or other coping methods to deal with a world they didn't grow up in and cannot adjust to.

Those children who branch out early from the boundaries of fundamentalism and interact with those who are different (do not attend church, or instead attend mass, or who may be different in other ways than religion) are surrounded by a thick cloud of pressure, criticism, prayers, judgemental attitudes, and so on by the church, and are therefore pressured to come "out from among them and be ye separate." If the behavior continues the entire family might be cast out from the church by a vote in the congregation, or the pastor may be feel justified to cast out the errant family himself.

Quote:

How dare those people do their best by her in their own way?

How dare they not be atheists?


Anyone should be smart enough to understand that the earth is not 6,000 years old, that Jesus is not coming again, that their little religious group cannot be the only correct ones in their doctrine while everyone else believes Satan-induced lies, and the list goes on.

I believe my parents (especially my father) indulged some need within himself (need for absolute certainty? need to be told what to believe? need to share my mother's religion? I don't know) by believing in fundamentalism, and he rationalized any deeply-internalized doubts with common stereotypical ideas that church is good for the family, people who believe in god are better off in their lives, the messages in church were decent family-values, etc.
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fungotheclown
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 11:27 pm
It's important to remember though, that fulfilling needs or desires means nothing when considering a concepts validity. I can see how the idea of a god could be comforting (although I personally find it a distasteful idea), but this doesn't make it any more correct. The fact still remains that there is no evidence for a god.

I've always felt that absolutism is a form of intellectual cowardice; by making everything a matter of black and white, you absolve yourself of the responsibility of making decisions.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Oct, 2007 04:20 am
aeroz wrote:
No one deserves a fundamentalist upbringing. I don't think you really understand what that means.

Children are very impressionable and their psyches are delicate. Teach them that there is anything infallible and absolute and 100% certain, and they will grow to need that. Base these beliefs on a foundation of sand (the erroneous "proofs" of fundamentalist doctrines), and you're setting up your child for disaster.

Child grows up, finds out the lies, and the foundation crumbles. The now-adult still needs absolute certainty and the guarantee of life after death in heaven, united with loves ones--but now has no such guarantee. How is the now-adult to deal with his/her own mortality, and the idea that separation from loved ones is surely to occur? There is no tool developed within the psyche to deal with this new pain.


that's deep, honestly.

aeroz, i'm convinced there are tools to deal with pain like that, and i hope you find them, make use of them, and make them available to people.
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fungotheclown
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Oct, 2007 01:48 pm
I've been dealing with a similar problem for awhile, and I've discussed the issue with quite a large number of people.

One of the more interesting things I've noticed is the similarities between the atheistic and homosexual communities. Both have the coming out moment, both are considered immoral by the majority of the populous, and both are heavily stereotyped. My recommendation is, look to the homosexual community for advice about this. They've been working on this problem as a group for a lot longer than we have.
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bellsybop
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Nov, 2007 01:27 am
I'm 41 and just tried to tell my mother that I don't believe in the content in the bible and that Jesus might've existed to me.
Didn't go over very well, to say the least. She blamed herself.
But I stood firm and clear that this is my decision and that she had no influence in it whatsoever.
I am not going to live my life to appease anyone. I have but one chance to live it and refuse to do so by someone else's standards.
I respect my mother's feelings.. but I respect mine too.
There's a message in that.
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aeroz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2007 09:25 pm
bellsybop wrote:
I'm 41 and just tried to tell my mother that I don't believe in the content in the bible and that Jesus might've existed to me.
Didn't go over very well, to say the least. She blamed herself.
But I stood firm and clear that this is my decision and that she had no influence in it whatsoever.
I am not going to live my life to appease anyone. I have but one chance to live it and refuse to do so by someone else's standards.
I respect my mother's feelings.. but I respect mine too.
There's a message in that.


Oh my I hope I don't have to wait till I'm 41. I'm 23 currently and feel like I should have told my parents at age 21. I've been "thinking" about it since age 21 and have been lying to them over the years. If I told them now, they would not know who I am anymore.

Agnostic, liberal, lives with boyfriend, totally different set of morals.
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aeroz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2007 09:29 pm
fungotheclown wrote:
I've been dealing with a similar problem for awhile, and I've discussed the issue with quite a large number of people.

One of the more interesting things I've noticed is the similarities between the atheistic and homosexual communities. Both have the coming out moment, both are considered immoral by the majority of the populous, and both are heavily stereotyped. My recommendation is, look to the homosexual community for advice about this. They've been working on this problem as a group for a lot longer than we have.


I've been reading some of the literature about coming out, and one of the criteria is, you have to be 100% sure in yourself while coming out. And you can't be angry or bitter towards those who might not understand or be opposed. I am angry; therefore I don't think I am ready. I'd have to do it by email in order to keep the anger away. And I don't know if email is a good way to break the news.
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bellsybop
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Nov, 2007 12:52 am
I'm confident in myself.. I just can't stand seeing her think it's her fault.

People frown so much on 'us' when we have different beliefs other than traditional christianity, or particular religious beliefs.

But I let my position on my beliefs be known. I have that right. But like the original poster said, it's tough dealing with the way others don't want to deal with it.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Nov, 2007 12:08 pm
fungotheclown wrote:
It's important to remember though, that fulfilling needs or desires means nothing when considering a concepts validity. I can see how the idea of a god could be comforting (although I personally find it a distasteful idea), but this doesn't make it any more correct. The fact still remains that there is no evidence for a god.

I've always felt that absolutism is a form of intellectual cowardice; by making everything a matter of black and white, you absolve yourself of the responsibility of making decisions.


fungo:

It makes no sense to me how you can say this: "I've always felt that absolutism is a form of intellectual cowardice; by making everything a matter of black and white, you absolve yourself of the responsibility of making decisions."

Right after making this absolute statement:

"...The fact still remains that there is no evidence for a god."

'Intellectual cowardice'?
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fungotheclown
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Nov, 2007 12:57 pm
If it would make you feel better baddog1, I can qualify that statement with "that I am aware of". Does that help things a bit? Present me with said evidence, and I will change my opinion on the god question rather quickly; until then, the information available to me leads me to believe that there is no such thing as a god.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2007 03:03 pm
fungotheclown wrote:
If it would make you feel better baddog1, I can qualify that statement with "that I am aware of". Does that help things a bit? Present me with said evidence, and I will change my opinion on the god question rather quickly; until then, the information available to me leads me to believe that there is no such thing as a god.


It's not about making me feel better fungo. It's about communication and subsequent understanding.

As to your question about God - that is between you & him. The evidence is in the eye of the beholder.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2007 03:14 pm
Being an athiest or gay (or anything else for that matter, like very tall or very short) is only a problem when YOU do not accept it; in that case self-alienation becomes your actual problem (not atheism or homosexuality or height).
But when others find it difficult to accept your nature that's THEIR problem not yours. You deal with your problem and let them deal with theirs.
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