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The US, The UN and Iraq

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:06 pm
Is "honky" a slip of the tongue? Wink c.i.
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Dreamweaver MX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:07 pm
steissd,
So it's not wrong because you say so or do you have a point that you will share?
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:08 pm
steissd wrote:
Those who do not want to be convinced, will not be convinced by anything: even if the CIA manages to capture the Iraqi WMD lab together with its personnel and bring it to the session of the Security Council.


On my way back from a meeting I listened to the statements of the Foreign ministers of the UK, Cameroon, Russia, Pakistan, Bulgaria, Mexico, and France that followed Powell's presentations. I believe they fully confirm the truth of Stessid's observations above.

Basically the US and the UK are saying, 'we have conclusive proof of systematic and continuing Iraqi attempts to conceal the biological and chemical weapons inventory and manufacturing capability they now have and the uranium enrichment program they are trying to develop. We conclude therefore that inspections cannot produce the required disarmament of Iraq.' Our opponents are saying that, ' these facts are troubling and should be investigated. A peaceful solution is paramount and the inspections should continue.' There is no possible reconciliation of these viewpoints.

It was interesting to note that Bulgaria's statement supported the US view directly (new Europe), Pakistan and Mexico were carefully ambiguous, but more or less with us, Cameroon utterly ambiguous, and France & Russia quite unreconcilable.

Which of these nations has large in place contracts with the present Iraqi government for the development of her oil fields?
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:11 pm
In '60s the global danger of spreading of Communism was actual, and this endangered vital interests of the USA. So, the American administrations made an effort to put a restraint on this process.
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:15 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
It was interesting to note that Bulgaria's statement supported the US view directly (new Europe), Pakistan and Mexico were carefully ambiguous, but more or less with us, Cameroon utterly ambiguous, and France & Russia quite unreconcilable.

Which of these nations has large in place contracts with the present Iraqi government for the development of her oil fields?

Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! I know this one!!!! :wink:
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:16 pm
george, Wars have been waged on the basis of economics. This one is no different. France and Russia has economic interests with Iraq. They know that will change as soon as the US starts a war with Iraq. How far they are willing to defy UN resolutions for personal interests is anybody's guess. Germany has already opted out of any action against Iraq. I'm apt to agree with Germany's position more than any other countries, because I don't see Iraq as a threat to US security in any way. How can a country the size of California fight a war with the whole world? The only outcome is so obvious, it takes many forms of creative imagination to see how harmful they can be. Iraq against the world. When, where, and how? c.i.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:19 pm
I thought the Iraqi ambassador at the UN made a good job in 10 minutes of demolishing the 80 minute Colin Powell show. (It might have been a pack of lies but it was effective).

Meanwhile Gen Amer Al Sa'adi in Baghdad also made some good points about US violations of resolution 1441 for example by not giving Hans Blix the intelligence information he needs.

The 8pm Baghdad press conference tomorrow should be quite interesting, unless of course Bush decided to cancel it on grounds of national security (along with the rest of Baghdad)
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:20 pm
i am really quite sick of the polemic, dogmatic, uptight, reactionary and, yes idiotic diatribes on this topic. I was hated by the liberals for fightning in Nam, hated by the conservatives for protesting against Nam and i see the same shortsighted, myopic rants continiuing here. There was an idea in the founding of this nation that we, as citizens, had an obligation to question everything, to not accept via blind faith whatever the government hands out. I protested against JFK, LBJ, RMN and i continue to protest against Bush 43. But the bottom line is that i put my life on the line for the people and not for the government.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:22 pm
Thanks dyslexia!
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Dreamweaver MX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:26 pm
steissd,
Once again we are back to my original question. Does the end justify any imaginable means? Did the alledged threat to "vital interests" give the United States a carte blanche to trod the vital interests of others? And when did preserving life take a back seat to preserving capitalism. Are you simply saying that differing ideology gives one country the right to force ideology on others and justifies all means of accomplishing their goals?
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:27 pm
Quote:
Basically the US and the UK are saying, 'we have conclusive proof of systematic and continuing Iraqi attempts to conceal the biological and chemical weapons inventory and manufacturing capability they now have and the uranium enrichment program they are trying to develop. We conclude therefore that inspections cannot produce the required disarmament of Iraq.' Our opponents are saying that, ' these facts are troubling and should be investigated. A peaceful solution is paramount and the inspections should continue.' There is no possible reconciliation of these viewpoints.


Yes there is... war but NOT YET and certainly not without giving the weapons inspectors time to do their job.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:27 pm
BillW

No thanks----this is just part of my new Psywar strategy.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:28 pm
Rats!
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:29 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
...and certainly not without giving the weapons inspectors time to do their job.

Can you define what this means to you?
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:34 pm
no. Ask Hans Blix
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:34 pm
Cicerone,

Similar words were used in the League of Nations with reference to Italy's invasion of Ethiopia, and later within French government councils when Hitler defied the Versailles treaty to remilitarize the Rhineland. In both cases the dangers were then remote and would have been easily thwarted by forecful action. In both cases nothing was and the dangers grew and became deadly.
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:35 pm
C.I., I am sure that Iraq cannot defeat the USA in a conventional war. But by means of sponsoring terror and providing terrorists with modern WMD, Iraq is quite able to cause serious damage to the USA. It is absolutely wise for the USA to refuse to play in accordance with the rules that are in favor of Iraq. U.S. wants to impose on the latter the rules of conflict that will inevitably lead to Saddam's regime being defeated, namely, the full-scale conventional war.
Attempts to solve the problem by means of diplomacy are in favor of Iraq: Saddam may negotiate for years and decades, and develop weapons and send terrorists in meantime. If the conventional war starts, he will lose all these advantages, and will be much more concerned in saving his own person than in launching terror attacks. Contemporary reality that includes terror as one of the everyday life ingredients leads to controversial situation when war is preferable to peace.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:35 pm
Dys

C-mon----you make it sound like you fought Vietnam all by youself -----I didn't see there.
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:37 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
no. Ask Hans Blix

Thanks for the helpful, thoughtful reply. It's good to know that people with such strong opinions have really given them plenty of thought. :wink:
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2003 02:38 pm
Quote:
C-mon----you make it sound like you fought Vietnam all by youself -----I didn't see there.

I think this comment is WAY out of line.
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