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The US, The UN and Iraq

 
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 02:13 pm
Tartar wrote:

"BTW, how much of our UN dues did we pay over the years since 1980"?

How much rent has the UN paid for their luxurious and prestigious head quarters in New York?
0 Replies
 
ul
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 02:22 pm
Recent United States Debt to the UN:
Monthly Totals
Sums in $US, rounded to the nearest million
Totals include debt for International Tribunals
Percentages show U.S. proportion of total debt in category

31 December 2002
Regular Budget: $190 million (62%)
Peacekeeping: $536 million (40%)
Total: $738 million (44%)

http://www.globalpolicy.org/finance/info/usdebt.htm
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 02:31 pm
Huge amounts of money. And I have forgotten, a long time ago. What is the purported reason for us withholding funds? Can anyone remember?
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 02:55 pm
Well, actually Perception, the UN owns the land -- which is international territory:

"In 1946, the United Nations were looking for a location for their new headquarters in New York. The original plan was to use the grounds of the 1939 World Fair in Flushing Meadow in Queens. But when a project known as X-City on Manhattan's eastern border failed to materialize, John D. Rockefeller Jr. bought the 18 acre plot and donated it to United Nations. This site was then used to build the UN's headquarters. The whole area was converted into international territory and officially does not belong to the United States..."

The US wanted them there (talk about prestige!) and should still be proud to have them there... Them? Us!

Thank you UL for going to that trouble. Now we begin to get the picture, don't we!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 02:57 pm
perception

Just found the rent for the London office:
£142,700 plus an annual service charge of £31,700.

The ground of the UN-headquarters in New York has been donated by Rockefeller to the UN, the building is their own - exterritorial, btw (same in Geneva and Vienna).
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 02:59 pm
oops, Tartarin, seems, we worked on the same subject :wink:
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 03:45 pm
perception

The "Neue Zürcher Zeitung" (Switzerland), reported about 10,000 Turkish soldiers, which should be in the north of Iraq and around Suleimaniye on January, 11, 2001.
This was quoted by the "Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung" (Timber quoted this paper indirectly) in a special report about the Kurds and Turkey, where this paper added the "rumour" of some 20,000 being stationed later there on February, 9, 2003.
[Had to search for it in the 'waste-paper-bin'.]
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 03:47 pm
Eh, they didn't say, 20,00 were there in February this year, but that "it was said, they had been there".
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 04:10 pm
What the article actually says is this; "IRBIL, Iraq - Rebel Kurdish leaders warned Sunday gthat Turkish troops will be attacked if they are allowed to enter northern Iraq in return for Turkey's support for a U.S. invasion." c.i.
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ul
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 04:27 pm
Feb 25, 2003
• KDP Official: Turkey a Bigger Threat than Saddam Sami Abdul Rahman: "Nobody has been able to disarm us, and nobody will be able to disarm us. Every Kurdish family has arms," he said, adding that this message had been given to the Turkish military during a meeting last week at the Salopi border post. A further meeting between the Turkish army and the KDP is planned in the coming days." More

http://www.kurdistanobserver.com/
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 04:30 pm
Wasn't sure whether this one belonged in Politics or Science, so here goes.


SCIENTIFIC BREAKTHROUGH
A major research institution has recently announced the discovery of the heaviest chemical element yet known to science. The new element has been tentatively named Governmentium.
Governmentium has one neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy neutrons, and 224 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312.
These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which peons. Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected as it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A minute amount of governmentium causes one reaction to take over five days to complete when it would normally take less than a second. Governmentium has a normal half-life of three years; it does of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. In fact, governmentium's mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganization will cause some morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes.
This characteristic of moron-promotion leads some scientists to speculate that governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as Critical Morass
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 04:32 pm
The latest moves by France Germany and Russia would suggest it is getting harder to get the so called 2nd resolution passed. I hope so. The world community clearly can't stop this war, but it might be able to make it illegal.

Roger

I asked a genuine question, where are US troops deployed in Afghanistan? Are they securing a route for the pipeline? I've not been able to find out.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 04:44 pm
Steve

The Us Defense Department shows this information

Operation Enduring Freedom
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 04:56 pm
Walter and Tartar

Thanks for that most welcome news regarding the UN building---Looks like we're stuck with'em---groan.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 05:41 pm
Tartarin wrote:

"Thank you UL for going to that trouble. Now we begin to get the picture, don't we"!

This is in regards to the percentage of money paid by the US vs the REST OF THE WORLD.

The picture I get is that the US has been paying approximately 48% of the total expenditures ever since 1946-----The REST OF THE WORLD has been paying only 52 %----is this the picture you think is so indicative that we are shirking?????

I haven't seen any evidence that those parasites haven't been able to have their $200 lunches and they haven't closed the doors where they shirk their duties.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 06:04 pm
just in case its seen as a piece of cake:-

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030223-iraq01.htm
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 08:42 pm
http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/print.asp?ArticleID=78463

Quote:
Exclusive: U.S. plans military campaign unparalleled in history
Bahrain | By Mohammed Almezel | 24/02/2003

...The naval officer said if the UN fails to disarm the Iraqi regime, the U.S. forces will do 'the job'. "We are ready to respond now," if President George W. Bush orders the strike, the officer said, but declined to give a specific deadline ...

... "But it will be an orchestrated effort involving the Navy, the Air Force and the Marines Corps; we'll attack from the air and the ground. It will be something the world has never seen before," said the officer, who stressed the U.S. military will eventually get the cooperation of two important regional allies; Turkey and Saudi Arabia ...


http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-te.battle24feb24,0,218760.story?coll=bal%2Dnationworld%2Dheadlines

Quote:
U.S. plan for Iraq: Hit hard, hit fast, protect civilians
Precision weapons, tanks, helicopter-borne troops would lead off attack


By Tom Bowman
Sun National Staff
Originally published February 24, 2003



WASHINGTON - An American-led attack on Iraq would be a three-dimensional fight, a synchronized ballet of lethality conducted with lightning swiftness.

Precision-guided weapons launched by ships and planes would obliterate key sites in Baghdad. Helicopter-borne troops and commandos would seize airfields and weapons depots. Armored units would rumble through the country from north and south.

As the United States moves closer to war, military officials and defense analysts describe the fast-paced attack the Pentagon envisions as "ferocious" and "highly kinetic."


From the same article, re Civilians/Collateral Damage:
Quote:
Protecting civilians

War planners are going to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties and to deal with potentially huge numbers of refugees, officials say. Thousands of targets are being reviewed, spearheaded by "target boards" of military officers and civilian officials who decide which ones have military value and should be included on the list.

Three-dimensional computer models are created to look at each target to determine the best angle, bomb and fuse for an attack. Targets that could lead to civilian casualties require extra scrutiny and top-level civilian approval, officials say.

"No military in history takes more care to prevent civilian casualties than the U.S. military," said Jim Wilkinson, a spokesman for the U.S. Central Command, which is in charge of planning for an attack on Iraq. "However, when you're dealing with someone like Saddam Hussein, who has a history of using civilians as human shields, some civilian casualties may be inevitable."




Should it come to war, I expect Saddam and Steve (as 4100) will suffer greater disappointment than will Tommy Franks. Of course, that presupposes no Iraqi deployment of WMD. The direct military significance would be small, but a humanitarian crisis of unparallelled nature would surely result. Civilian casualties would be horrendous, and a refugee problem of biblical proportion could ensue. I can't help but wonder what would be the response of those opposed to the war to such an atrocity. I would think Saddam's use of weapons his denial of occasions the current tensions would bring about some introspection on the part of those who proclaim "The Inspections are working".



timber
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 08:45 pm
We all hope you're right, timber. c.i.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 09:52 pm
Well, now, who do you believe:

Stratfor offers this
http://www.stratfor.biz/Story.neo?storyId=210548&countryId=59
Quote:
Sources: Iraq Agrees to Full Compliance With Inspectors
Feb 25, 2003

Former Russian Prime Minister Yevgeny Primakov, reputed to be a personal friend of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, made a lightning visit to Baghdad on Feb. 23. The purpose and results of the meeting are shrouded in secrecy, apart from a statement by Moscow that Hussein was asked -- and agreed -- to cooperate fully with U.N. weapons inspectors.

Reliable Stratfor sources within the Russian government say Hussein indeed has promised to cooperate with the inspectors' demands -- including that Baghdad scrap its al Samoud 2 missile program by March 1, an announcement that sources expect to be forthcoming within days.

The importance of the meeting stretches much further, however. Sources say the Iraqi leader has agreed to a proposal by Russian President Vladimir Putin -- previously discussed between Russian, French and German leaders -- that Baghdad formally invite U.N. peacekeepers within the next 10 days or so to back up weapons inspectors. This, sources say, would show the world that Iraq will be unconditionally disarmed under strict and fully enforceable U.N. deadlines, with peacekeepers staying on in Iraq until the task is complete.

Sources also say that Hussein has asked Putin to deliver a secret offer to U.S. and British energy giants, inviting them back to Iraq as major industry players roughly 30 years after they were ousted from the country. The companies could return to Iraq immediately if Washington calls off its planned invasion.


While The New York Times has this
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq.html
Quote:
U.N. Says No to Iraq Missile Compromise
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS



Filed at 9:55 p.m. ET

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Saddam Hussein indicated on Monday that he does not intend to follow U.N. orders to destroy his Al-Samoud 2 missiles, and challenged President Bush to an internationally televised debate via satellite linkup.

In a three-hour interview with CBS anchor Dan Rather, the Iraqi leader said he envisioned a live debate with Bush along the lines of those in a U.S. presidential campaign, according to the network. The White House dismissed the debate offer as meaningless.


My personal suspicion is that Saddam will give up the missles, as they are compromised already .., their existence and location are known, rendering them militarily useless. By surrendering them, Saddam will hope to gain the "More Inspection" crowd a bit more leverage, and buy himself more time. Insisting upon keeping the missiles would just seal his own doom. I doubt seriously he'll get his wish to debate Bush the Younger ... that just ain't gonna happen.

The Stratfor article's mention of a "Secret" Russian message to Washington is interesting, as is reference to U.N. Peacekeepers. This probably bears watching. We should know if there is anything to the reports by Wednesday or Thursday at the latest, I expect.
As to great hopes, well, I remember Russia's attempt to pull off a similar last-minute deal in '92 ... which didn't work. We shall see.



timber
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 10:06 pm
perception wrote:
The picture I get is that the US has been paying approximately 48% of the total expenditures ever since 1946-----The REST OF THE WORLD has been paying only 52 %----is this the picture you think is so indicative that we are shirking?????


http://www.un.int/usa/fact2.htm (United States Mission to the U.N. website)

Quote:
THE UNITED NATIONS -- MYTH AND REALITY
AMERICAN SUPPORT

Fact Sheet



American Financial Support

Myth: The United States pays for almost all of the United Nations' programs and peacekeeping operations.

Reality: The U.S. pays 22% of the UN's regular budget and about 27.2% of the peacekeeping budgets. It also pays about 25% of the costs of the International Criminal Tribunals for Rwanda and Former Yugoslavia.

* * * * *


Myth: The U.S. pays too much to the UN. Other countries are getting a free ride.

Reality: UN membership dues, known as assessments, are based primarily on each nation's share of the global economy. The U.S. economy represents about 31% of the global economy. The U.S. therefore benefits from the 22% ceiling on assessments for the regular budget. Many countries actually pay more in assessments than their share of the global economy.

Myth: The U.S. spends a large portion of its federal budget on UN policies/programs.

Reality: Total U.S. payments to the entire UN system (including the World Bank and IMF) amount to less than one-quarter of one percent of the federal budget. In 2001, for example, the U.S. paid about $300 million as its share of the UN's regular budget. All told, U.S. contributions to the entire UN system, including those for peacekeeping missions, amounted to about $3.5 billion in 2001.

[Also see the section on Financing in the United Nations Fact Sheet.]

* * * * *


American Military Support

Myth: Too many American soldiers are serving in UN peacekeeping operations. The U.S. provides most of the military men and women involved in UN peacekeeping operations.

Reality: Fewer than 40 American military men and women are currently serving in UN peacekeeping operations. Americans therefore represent less than 1% of the approximate total of 40,000 soldiers serving in UN peacekeeping operations.



there's quite a bit of interesting information at the website proper

http://www.un.int/usa/index.htm
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