fresco wrote:Zippo,
Leaving infantile conspiracy theories aside, Jews seem to have the genetics which favours intellectual development...
If "Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with non-Jews from the Middle East, including Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese", then why arn't they just as smart? What if you compare Jews with African blacks, Chinese or Russians...etc..You get the idea. Well read below for the answer.
Quote:The study, published in the May 9 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with non-Jews from the Middle East, including Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, and these signatures diverged significantly from non-Jewish men outside of this region. Consequently, Jews and Arabs share a common ancestor and are more closely related to one another than to non-Jews from other areas of the world.
Science Daily
According to the study, slated to appear in an upcoming issue of the Journal
of Biosocial Science, Ashkenazim do better than average on IQ tests, scoring
some 12-15 points above the test's mean value. But they also are more likely
than any other ethnic groups to suffer from diseases such as Tay-Sachs,
Gaucher's disease and Niemann-Pick - related conditions that can be
debilitating and deadly.
The new study hypothesizes that the genetic disorders could be the
unfortunate side effects of genes that facilitate intelligence.
Quote:(
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=10720 )
A new study by the University of Utah on Ashkenazi Jews has suggested an unusual link between their genetic diseases and their higher intellectual ability.
The study says an unusual pattern of diseases among the Ashkenazis of central and northern Europe is the result of natural selection for enhanced intellectual ability.
Basically its a genetic disorder.
Here is another great article on this topic - (please read the full article):
Quote:Did Discrimination Enhance Intelligence of Jews?
James Owen
for
National Geographic News
July 18, 2005
Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, Leonard Bernstein, Saul Bellow, to name a few, all shared European Jewish ancestry.
Known as Ashkenazim, this ethnic group is blessed with more than its fair share of talented minds.
But they are also prone to a number of serious genetic diseases.
Researchers now suggest that intelligence is closely linked to such illnesses in Ashkenazi Jews, and that the diseases are the result of natural selection.
Ashkenazim have the highest average IQ of any ethnic group, scoring 12 to 15 points above the European average. They are also strongly represented in fields and occupations requiring high cognitive ability. For instance, European-origin Jews account for 27 percent of U.S. Nobel science prize winners but make up only about 3 percent of the U.S. population.
But the group is also associated with neurological disorders, including Tay-Sachs, Gaucher's, and Niemann-Pick. Tay-Sachs is a fatal inherited disease of the central nervous system. Sufferers lack an enzyme needed to break down fatty substances in the brain and nerve cells. Gauchers and Niemann-Pick are similar, often fatal diseases.
Researchers at the University of Utah's anthropology department investigated a possible link between these genetic illnesses and above-average intelligence in Ashkenazi Jews. They suggest both are the result of natural selection for enhanced brainpower.
Because Jews were discriminated against in medieval Europe, they were often driven into professions such as moneylending and banking which were looked down upon or forbidden to Christians.
Writing last month in the Journal of Biosocial Science, the researchers said, "For the most part they had jobs in which increased IQ strongly favored economic success, in contrast with other populations, who were mostly peasant farmers. They lived in circumstances in which economic success led to increased reproductive success."
Historians suggest Jews with lucrative jobs often had four, six, or sometimes eight or nine children. Poorer families, meanwhile, tended to be smaller, possibly because they lived in overcrowded areas of town and children were more prone to disease...
Oh and, fresco is ignorant and racist.
Somebody dig up a comparison between black and white nobel prize winners.
Zippo,
If your "logic" is exemplary of the intellect of their opposition, no wonder the Jews are successful.
fresco wrote:Zippo,
...Jews are successful.
No rebuttal ?
This is what you actually support: ( Israeli people's "intelligence" in action )
Quote:INTIMIDATING THE WORLD
ISRAELI GLOBAL TERRORISM:
PART TWO
ISRAELY
CYBER-TERRORISM
Description Of Criminal Methods in Suppressing Opponents
Israeli Cyber Global War on Freedom of Expression
GOALS OF THIS WORK
1. The goal of this work is to show that in 1990-s and 2000-s exploited by conventional terrorism
Israelis, was extended to the domain of Internet. Their crimes in general were combined with the
methods and tricks of their criminal actions in cyber-space. There is a small bibliography on Israeli
(Zionist) international terrorism in the end of this work; so, there is no need to concentrate on this
now.
2 As a "totalitarian military ochlocracy" (one of the Zionism critics' characteristics of the State of
Israel), Israeli regime does not tolerate any essential criticism from within Israel or abroad.
3. Israelis persecute people who denounce:
1) - Israeli regime's participation in sex slaves and drugs (+ contraband of arms) trafficking,
cooperation with international Mafia and money laundering, training and supporting of the most
brutal regimes in the world;
2) persecution and genocide against new immigrants and ethnic minorities in Israel;
3) war crimes and terror against Palestinian people; enslaving Palestinians and other groups of
people in Israel;
4) Israeli anti-Christian, racist and xenophobic laws and regulations;
5) Holocaust official doctrine (this criticism is called "revisionism");
6) Israeli and Jewish Diaspora control over media in many important countries; Jewish
domination in finances, politics and power structures.
4. Because Israel is fully dependent from financial and material (military) support from abroad, any
criticism of the State of Israel has an impact on issue of autonomy, privileges and enormous power
of the Jewish organizations in Diaspora. They almost everywhere have a status of a "state within a
state ", and privileges to form their own" army, police, government, intelligence, etc. This is one
of the reasons, why Israel persecutes opponents world-wise.
5. Israelis achieve suppression of independent voices mostly through terrorist methods, violating
any regulation and international law, any international convention and treaty. Amorality is not just
their tool, but their ideology. Cynicism has developed itself to the extremes in Israeli political elite;
"anything that gives something to one or many Jews Jew can be achieved by any means, as well
as there are no true people in the world besides Jews "(one Zionist said in an Internet-forum).
Israeli parliamentarians, such as Meir KAHANE, Rhavam ZEEVI, and many others, had openly
unlimited expressed racist views, and spread propaganda of terrorism, violence and cruelty.
source
Zippo wrote:Has anyone read the comments posted on the timesonline article. Wow! i am not the only one who has noticed the effect of 'Israeli Lobby' and AIPAC on American politics. I advice people to wake up and smell the coffee. There are so many comments such as this one posted by John Chuchman:
Based on your many posts, "waking up and smelling the coffee" could have one come to the conclusion that the U.S. is really a colony of Israel.
Now I understand why most males in the U.S. were circumcised at birth.
I would guess many of the Evangelicals will be acceptable to this state of affairs. However, there are other Christian faiths that may feel this is highly irregular and may want to break away from Mother Israel. Is Israel taxing our tea? We might need a Boston Tea Party.
But back to reality (The above was just an attempt at humor). Israel is going to exist as a Jewish State just like Egypt will never be given back to the Black Africans that were the Pharohs. North Africa will not be given back to the Black Africans. Cuba will not be given back to the Miami Cubans. Argentina will not be given back to the indigenous people pushed into Patagonia. Australia will not be given back to the Aboriginees. The U.S. will not be given back to the Native Americans, nor will Mexico and South America.
I'm sorry, that's how the world works. It's not fair, but fairness is for fairy tales.
So, if these postings reflect a hope that one day Israel will fall apart, it won't. In the meantime, there will be many that have very mixed feelings about Israel, simply because many people truly have very mixed feelings about Jews. It's really simple. That's why, in my opinion, many people read these postings and many have very mixed feelings.
Zippo wrote:fresco wrote:Zippo,
Leaving infantile conspiracy theories aside, Jews seem to have the genetics which favours intellectual development...
If "Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with non-Jews from the Middle East, including Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese", then why arn't they just as smart? What if you compare Jews with African blacks, Chinese or Russians...etc..You get the idea. Well read below for the answer.
Quote:The study, published in the May 9 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with non-Jews from the Middle East, including Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, and these signatures diverged significantly from non-Jewish men outside of this region. Consequently, Jews and Arabs share a common ancestor and are more closely related to one another than to non-Jews from other areas of the world.
Science Daily
According to the study, slated to appear in an upcoming issue of the Journal
of Biosocial Science, Ashkenazim do better than average on IQ tests, scoring
some 12-15 points above the test's mean value. But they also are more likely
than any other ethnic groups to suffer from diseases such as Tay-Sachs,
Gaucher's disease and Niemann-Pick - related conditions that can be
debilitating and deadly.
The new study hypothesizes that the genetic disorders could be the
unfortunate side effects of genes that facilitate intelligence.
Quote:(
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=10720 )
A new study by the University of Utah on Ashkenazi Jews has suggested an unusual link between their genetic diseases and their higher intellectual ability.
The study says an unusual pattern of diseases among the Ashkenazis of central and northern Europe is the result of natural selection for enhanced intellectual ability.
Basically its a genetic disorder.
Here is another great article on this topic - (please read the full article):
Quote:Did Discrimination Enhance Intelligence of Jews?
James Owen
for
National Geographic News
July 18, 2005
Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, Leonard Bernstein, Saul Bellow, to name a few, all shared European Jewish ancestry.
Known as Ashkenazim, this ethnic group is blessed with more than its fair share of talented minds.
But they are also prone to a number of serious genetic diseases.
Researchers now suggest that intelligence is closely linked to such illnesses in Ashkenazi Jews, and that the diseases are the result of natural selection.
Ashkenazim have the highest average IQ of any ethnic group, scoring 12 to 15 points above the European average. They are also strongly represented in fields and occupations requiring high cognitive ability. For instance, European-origin Jews account for 27 percent of U.S. Nobel science prize winners but make up only about 3 percent of the U.S. population.
But the group is also associated with neurological disorders, including Tay-Sachs, Gaucher's, and Niemann-Pick. Tay-Sachs is a fatal inherited disease of the central nervous system. Sufferers lack an enzyme needed to break down fatty substances in the brain and nerve cells. Gauchers and Niemann-Pick are similar, often fatal diseases.
Researchers at the University of Utah's anthropology department investigated a possible link between these genetic illnesses and above-average intelligence in Ashkenazi Jews. They suggest both are the result of natural selection for enhanced brainpower.
Because Jews were discriminated against in medieval Europe, they were often driven into professions such as moneylending and banking which were looked down upon or forbidden to Christians.
Writing last month in the Journal of Biosocial Science, the researchers said, "For the most part they had jobs in which increased IQ strongly favored economic success, in contrast with other populations, who were mostly peasant farmers. They lived in circumstances in which economic success led to increased reproductive success."
Historians suggest Jews with lucrative jobs often had four, six, or sometimes eight or nine children. Poorer families, meanwhile, tended to be smaller, possibly because they lived in overcrowded areas of town and children were more prone to disease...
Oh and, fresco is ignorant and racist.
Somebody dig up a comparison between black and white nobel prize winners.
Few Ashkenazi Jews get Tay-Sachs today, since Jewish couples (both parents must have the recessive gene to have a 25% chance the baby will have Tay-Sachs) get genetically tested before marriage. Tay-Sachs is cropping up in another country, since no testing is done by couples elsewhere (I'd rather not say which country, but it's not a western country).
This posting left Sephardim out of the picture. They are the Jews from North Africa, the Middle East, and some Mediterranean countries. Since they are said to be the descendants of the Spanish Jews that had to leave Spain during the Inquisition, some think they are a purer Semite, as opposed to the Ashkenazi that apparently mixed with Europeans. How do they figure into the genetic relative of Middle Eastern peoples?
Also, the fact that many Jews get awards for some achievement, doesn't mean they are inherently smarter. It might mean their culture
emphasizes persistence. Also, the people that choose who is to be awarded for any achievement might have some reason to pick a Jew.(Guilt over the way Europe treated them for the past Millenium?)
And, I don't believe everything I read, since any article that can make Gentiles think it is disadvantageous to marry a Jew might be just the type of news article that would make a religious Jew happy. Inter-marriage in the U.S. and Europe is doing a better job of eliminating Jews than all of Hitler's gas and bullets.
Two Knights and a Dragon
The Power of the Israel Lobby
by Uri Avnery
There are books that change people's consciousness and change history. Some tell a story, like Harriet Beech Stowe's 1851 Uncle Tom's Cabin, which gave a huge impetus to the campaign for the abolition of slavery. Others take the form of a political treatise, like Theodor Herzl's Der Judenstaat, which gave birth to the Zionist movement. Or they can be scientific in nature, like Charles Darwin's The Origin of Species, which changed the way humanity sees itself. And perhaps political satire, too, can shake the world, like 1984 by George Orwell.
The impact of these books was amplified by their timing. They appeared exactly at the right time, when a large public was ready to absorb their message.
It may well turn out that the book by the two professors, John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy, is just such a book.
It is a dry scientific research report, 355 pages long, backed by 106 further pages containing some thousand references to sources.
It is not a bellicose book. On the contrary, its style is restrained and factual. The authors take great care not to utter a single negative comment on the legitimacy of the Lobby, and indeed bend over backwards to stress their support for the existence and security of Israel. They let the facts speak for themselves. With the skill of experienced masons, they systematically lay brick upon brick, row upon row, leaving no gap in their argumentation.
This wall cannot be torn down by reasoned argument. Nobody has tried, and nobody is going to. Instead, the authors are being smeared and accused of sinister motives. If the book could be ignored altogether, this would have been done - as has happened to other books which have been buried alive.
(Some years ago, there appeared in Russia a large tome by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the world-renowned laureate of the Nobel Prize for Literature, about Russia and its Jews. This book, called 200 Years Together, has been completely ignored. As far as I know, it has not been translated into any language, certainly not into Hebrew. I asked several of Israel's leading intellectuals, and none of them had even heard of the book. Neither does it appear on the list of Amazon.com, which includes all the author's other works.)
* * *
The two professors take the bull by the horns. They deal with a subject which is absolutely taboo in the United States, a subject nobody in his right mind would even mention: the enormous influence of the pro-Israel lobby on American foreign policy.
In a remorselessly systematical way, the book analyzes the Lobby, takes it apart, describes its modus operandi, discloses its financial sources and lays bare its relations with the White House, the two houses of Congress, the leaders of the two major parties and leading media people.
The authors do not call into question the Lobby's legitimacy. On the contrary, they show that hundreds of lobbies of this kind play an essential role in the American democratic system. The gun and the medical lobbies, for example, are also very powerful political forces. But the pro-Israel lobby has grown out of all proportion. It has unparalleled political power. It can silence all criticism of Israel in Congress and the media, bring about the political demise of anyone who dares to break the taboo, prevent any action that does not conform to the will of the Israeli government.
In its second part, the book shows how the Lobby uses its tremendous power in practice: how it has prevented the exertion of any pressure on Israel to make peace with the Palestinians, how it pushed the US into the invasion of Iraq, how it is now pushing for wars with Iran and Syria, how it supported the Israeli leadership in the recent war in Lebanon and blocked calls for a ceasefire when it didn't want it.
Each of these assertions is backed up by so much undeniable evidence and quotations from written material (mainly from Israeli sources) that they cannot be ignored.
* * *
Most of these disclosures are nothing new for those in Israel who deal with these matters.
I myself could add to the book a whole chapter from personal experience.
In the late 50s, I visited the US for the first time. A major New York radio station invited me for an interview. Later they cautioned me: "You can criticize the President (Dwight D. Eisenhower) and the Secretary of State (John Foster Dulles) to your heart's content, but please don't criticize Israeli leaders!" At the last moment the interview was cancelled altogether, and the Iraqi ambassador was invited instead. Criticism was apparently tolerable when it came from an Arab, but absolutely not coming from an Israeli.
In 1970, the respected American "Fellowship of Reconciliation" invited me for a lecture tour of 30 universities, under the auspices of the Hillel rabbis. When I arrived in New York, I was informed that 29 of the lectures had been cancelled. The sole rabbi who did not cancel, Balfour Brickner, showed me a secret communication of the "Anti-Defamation League" that proscribed my lectures. It said: "While Knesset Member Avnery can in no way be considered a traitor, his appearance at this time would be deeply divisive." In the end, all the lectures took place under the auspices of Christian chaplains.
I especially remember a depressing experience in Baltimore. A good Jew, who had volunteered to host me, was angered by the cancellation of my lecture in this city and obstinately insisted on putting it on. We combed the streets of the Jewish quarters - mile upon mile of signs with Jewish names - and did not find a single hall whose manager would agree to let the lecture by a member of the Israeli Knesset take place. In the end, we did hold the lecture in the basement of the building of my host's apartment - and functionaries of the Jewish community came to protest.
That year, during Black September, I held a press conference in Washington DC, under the auspices of the Quakers. It seemed to be a huge success. The journalists came straight from a press conference with Prime Minister Golda Meir, and showered me with questions. Almost all the important media were represented - TV networks, radio, the major newspapers. After the planned hour was up, they would not let me go and kept me talking for another hour and a half. But the next day, not a single word appeared in any of the media. Thirty-one years later, in October 2001 I held a press conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, and exactly the same thing happened: many of the media were there, they held me for another hour - and not a word, not a single word, was published.
In 1968, a very respected American publishing house (Macmillan) brought out a book of mine, Israel Without Zionists, which was later translated into eight other languages. The book described the Israeli-Arab conflict in a very different way and proposed the establishment of a Palestinian state next to Israel - a revolutionary idea at the time. Not a single review appeared in the American media. I checked in one of the most important book stores in New York and did not find the book. When I asked a salesman, he found it buried under a heap of volumes and put it on top. Half an hour later it was hidden again.
The book dealt with the "Two States for Two Peoples" solution long before it became a world-wide consensus, and with my proposal for Israel's integration in "the Semitic Region." True, I am an Israeli patriot and was elected to the Knesset by Israeli voters. But I criticized the Israeli government - and that was enough.
* * *
The book by the two professors, who criticize the Israeli government from a different angle, cannot be buried anymore. This fact, by itself, speaks volumes.
The book is based on an essay by the two that appeared last year in a British journal, after no American publication dared to touch it. Now a respected American publishing house has released it - an indication that something is moving. The situation has not changed, but it seems that it is now possible at least to talk about it.
Everything depends on timing - and apparently the time is now ripe for such a book, which will shock many good people in America. It is now causing an uproar.
The two professors are, of course, accused of anti-Semitism, racism and hatred of Israel. What Israel? It is the Lobby itself that hates a large part of Israel. In recent years is has shifted even more to the Right. Some of its constituent groups - such as the neocons who pushed the US into the Iraq war - are openly connected with the right-wing Likud, and especially with Binyamin Netanyahu. The billionaires who finance the Lobby are the same people who finance the extreme Israeli Right, and most of all the settlers.
The small, determined Jewish groups in the US who support the Israeli peace movements are remorselessly persecuted. Some of them fold after a few years. Members of Israeli peace groups who are sent to America are boycotted and slandered as "self-hating-Jews."
The political views of the two professors, which are briefly stated at the end of the book, are identical with the stand of the Israeli peace forces: the Two-State Solution, ending the occupation, borders based on the Green Line, and international support for the peace settlement.
If this is anti-Semitism, then we here are all anti-Semites. And only the Christian Zionists - those who openly demand the return of the Jews to this country but secretly prophesy the annihilation of the unconverted Jews at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ - are the true Lovers of Zion.
* * *
Even if not a single bad word about the pro-Israel lobby can be uttered in the US, it is far from being a secret society, hatching conspiracies like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. On the contrary, AIPAC, the Anti-Defamation League, the Zionist Federation and the other organizations vociferously boast about their actions and publicly proclaim their incredible successes.
Quite naturally, the diverse components of the Lobby compete with each other - Who has the biggest influence on the White House, Who scares the most senators, Who controls more journalists and commentators. This competition causes a permanent escalation - because every success by one group spurs the others to redouble their efforts.
This could be very dangerous. A balloon that is inflated to monstrous dimensions can one day burst in the face of American Jews (who, by the way, according to the polls, object to many positions adopted by the Lobby that claims to speak in their name.)
Most of the American public now opposes the Iraq war and considers it a disaster. This majority still does not connect the war with the actions of the pro-Israel lobby. No newspaper and no politician dares to hint at such a connection - yet. But if this taboo is broken, the result may be very dangerous for the Jews and for Israel.
Beneath the surface, a lot of anger directed against the Lobby is accumulating. The presidential candidates, who are compelled to grovel at the feet of AIPAC, the senators and congressmen, who have become slaves of the Lobby, the media people, who are forbidden to write what they really think - all these secretly detest the Lobby. If this anger explodes, it may hurt us, too.
This lobby has become a Golem. And like the Golem in legend, in the end it will bring disaster on its maker.
* * *
If I may be permitted to voice some criticism of my own:
When the original article by the two professors appeared, I argued that "the tail is wagging the dog and the dog is wagging the tail." The tail, of course, is Israel.
The two professors confirm the first part of the equation, but emphatically deny the second. The central thesis of the book is that the pressure of the Lobby causes the United States to act against its own interests (and, in the long run, also against the true interests of Israel.) They do not accept my contention, quoted in the book, that Israel acted in Lebanon as "America's Rottweiler" (to Hizbullah as "Iran's Doberman").
I agree that the US is acting against its true interest (and the true interests of Israel) - but the American leadership does not see it that way. Bush and his people believe - even without the input of the Lobby - that it would be advantageous for the US to establish a permanent American military presence in the middle of this region of huge oil reserves. In my view, this counter-productive act was one of the main objectives of the war, side by side with the desire to eliminate one of Israel's most dangerous enemies. Unfortunately, the book deals only very briefly with this issue.
That does not diminish in any way my profound admiration for the intellectual qualities, integrity and courage of Mearsheimer and Walt, two knights who, like St. George, who have sallied forth to face the fearful dragon.
Bluefame,
Thanks for that informative piece.
Since you imply that we Brits seem more open to criticism of Israel why do you think it is that the strong anti-war movement here fails to cite Israel as "an instigator"?
Zippo wrote
Quote:Also, the fact that many Jews get awards for some achievement, doesn't mean they are inherently smarter. It might mean their culture emphasizes persistence. Also, the people that choose who is to be awarded for any achievement might have some reason to pick a Jew.(Guilt over the way Europe treated them for the past Millenium?)
More Zippo "logic"
Maybe its the Muslim's
lack of persistence ( the "Imshallah syndrome") which accounts for their spectacular failure to cash in on
their genetic potential ! :wink:
fresco, I didn't imply anything but merely posted an article by Uri Avnery.
fresco wrote:
Zippo wrote
Quote:Also, the fact that many Jews get awards for some achievement, doesn't mean they are inherently smarter. It might mean their culture emphasizes persistence. Also, the people that choose who is to be awarded for any achievement might have some reason to pick a Jew.(Guilt over the way Europe treated them for the past Millenium?)
As well as being ignorant and racist, it looks like fresco can't even read.
I didn't write the text quoted above by fresco.
it's sad that this particular thread has devolved into a discussion of genetics, that's about as racist and ignorant as a2k ever gets.
tinygiraffe wrote:it's sad that this particular thread has devolved into a discussion of genetics, that's about as racist and ignorant as a2k ever gets.
Agreed, It was started by fresco to derail my thread. (this is what he usually does here) the guy is a troll.
fresco wrote:Jews seem to have the genetics which favours intellectual development.
This was used to refute claims made in the OP, what is actually does is to help it further.
Foofie wrote:Israel is going to exist as a Jewish State just like Egypt will never be given back to the Black Africans that were the Pharohs. North Africa will not be given back to the Black Africans. Cuba will not be given back to the Miami Cubans. Argentina will not be given back to the indigenous people pushed into Patagonia. Australia will not be given back to the Aboriginees. The U.S. will not be given back to the Native Americans, nor will Mexico and South America.
I'm sorry, that's how the world works. It's not fair, but fairness is for fairy tales.
I enjoy reading your posts Foofie. Keep 'em coming.
You make some very good points. I would agree with your assertion, except, that Israel cannot be compared to the examples you stated. Israel is a
A racist Jewish State and all the examples you posted are not. Israeli
democracy is for Jews only.
Those type of states do not and cannot survive.
By: Luisa Morgantini wrote:Yesterday, the Israeli Parliament approved, in preliminary reading,a bill that calls for all lands under the control of the Jewish National Fund (JNF) to be allocated to Jews only. In this way Israel strikes another blow against democracy, fueling discrimination and Apartheid. The proposal of the bill, initiated by the Israeli right wing, Kadima and Likud, prevents non-Jews from participating in bids to purchase land owned by the JNF (Jewish National Fund), 13 percent of all state land.
The bill passed by a massive majority of 64 MKs to 16, despite a pre-vote debate in the Knesset Presidency, in which many raised their voices against the bill, calling for it to be cancelled. These requests were rejected by the legal advisor to the Knesset on the grounds that " racism is not explicit in the proposal"
Zippo wrote:Foofie wrote:Israel is going to exist as a Jewish State just like Egypt will never be given back to the Black Africans that were the Pharohs. North Africa will not be given back to the Black Africans. Cuba will not be given back to the Miami Cubans. Argentina will not be given back to the indigenous people pushed into Patagonia. Australia will not be given back to the Aboriginees. The U.S. will not be given back to the Native Americans, nor will Mexico and South America.
I'm sorry, that's how the world works. It's not fair, but fairness is for fairy tales.
I enjoy reading your posts Foofie. Keep 'em coming.
You make some very good points. I would agree with your assertion, except, that Israel cannot be compared to the examples you stated. Israel is a
A racist Jewish State and all the examples you posted are not. Israeli
democracy is for Jews only.
Those type of states do not and cannot survive.
By: Luisa Morgantini wrote:Yesterday, the Israeli Parliament approved, in preliminary reading,a bill that calls for all lands under the control of the Jewish National Fund (JNF) to be allocated to Jews only. In this way Israel strikes another blow against democracy, fueling discrimination and Apartheid. The proposal of the bill, initiated by the Israeli right wing, Kadima and Likud, prevents non-Jews from participating in bids to purchase land owned by the JNF (Jewish National Fund), 13 percent of all state land.
The bill passed by a massive majority of 64 MKs to 16, despite a pre-vote debate in the Knesset Presidency, in which many raised their voices against the bill, calling for it to be cancelled. These requests were rejected by the legal advisor to the Knesset on the grounds that " racism is not explicit in the proposal"
You're telling me Australian aboriginees, or Argentinean natives, or Native Americans, or Black Africans in African Arab lands are treated with the milk of human kindness. I guess I was under a total misconception.
But, as I'd guess you already know, the Arab Israelis do vote, and with their higher birthrate than Israeli Jewish women, there are those that predict Israel has a finite lifespan. What you post may just reflect this awareness to the point that there will be more than one attempt to maintain the Jewish State as a Jewish State, regardless of what that means.
What is sad, is by having a State, Jews are forced to act just like Gentiles had to act historically. Israeli Jews, by not being the cowering European Jews, lost the moral high ground that many people once associated with Judaism.
But, like any good baseball World Series, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Perhaps, Israel will give citizenship to Evangelical Christians? (Who would likely vote like Jewish Israelis.)
But, if you Zippo could persuade some European countries to take all those Jews out of the Middle East, and let them live from whence they came, I'm sure that would be an appreciated solution (I'm sure Poland would like the three million Jews they lost to WWII). You understand the facetiousness of what I'm saying. So, the old NIMBY (Not In My Backyard)dilemma applies. And, it applied even when the Nazis decided to send the Jews out of Germany (before they realized there was nowhere to send them, so the Final Solution was then an alternate decision).
By the way, while there was a post about the
supposed genetic intelligence of Ashkenazi Jews, why would you say the Moslem world seems to have lost the high level of accomplishment that they achieved during the Moorish Golden Age of Spain (13th century)?
Quote:You're telling me Australian aboriginees, or Argentinean natives, or Native Americans, or Black Africans in African Arab lands are treated with the milk of human kindness. I guess I was under a total misconception.
Find one single example of them having their homes/crops bulldozed by the government. Or getting run over by a tank.
Zippo,
Superficial apologies for misquoting you !
That aside, YOU are the raving racist who singles out "the Jews" as "a problem". If there is a genetic aspect to "race" then I merely point out that it has given "that group" a spectacular propensity for contributing to the progress of humankind by way of intellectual achievements. Such a propensity has logically given them "influence". However YOUR credibility as a judge of this influence is bankrupt because you have a published history here of purile "conspiracy-itis" whose venomous bias is aimed at "that group". I do NOT unequivocally support Israeli policies which are driven by the fear of the the stated aims of their neighbours to eliminate them. Such fears are merely exacerbated by anti-semites like you whose obsessions tend push Israel and its supporters to further extremes and reinforce their uncompromising rigidity.
Zippo wrote:Quote:You're telling me Australian aboriginees, or Argentinean natives, or Native Americans, or Black Africans in African Arab lands are treated with the milk of human kindness. I guess I was under a total misconception.
Find one single example of them having their homes/crops bulldozed by the government. Or getting run over by a tank.
Then show me one single example of Australian aboriginees, or Argentinean natives, or any other group that had their land compromised (in their opinion) and then using the tactic of Homocide Bombers on innocent civilians. You know that's what initiates the bulldozing of homes.
You still haven't addressed the thought about Sephardic Jews, since you seem to write as though all Jews/Israelis are Ashkenazim (aka western or eastern European). Over half of the Jewish Israelis came from Arab countries, after the 1957 Arab/Israeli war. Plus, with the Ethiopian Jews doubling their population practically every decade, the day may come when anti-Zionists won't have Ashkenazi Jews to point to in Israel, claiming the Jewish Israelis are European usurpers.
As I've mentioned earlier, the Palestinians that say they lost land/homes in Israel during the 1948 war, left Israel at the request of the Arab invading armies. They were told to get out of the way of the Arab advancing armies, and in a few weeks time, when the Arab armies won, they could return to live in the homes of the Jews.
Boy, was that bad advice.
fresco wrote:Zippo,
Superficial apologies for misquoting you !
That aside, YOU are the raving racist who singles out "the Jews" as "a problem". If there is a genetic aspect to "race" then I merely point out that it has given "that group" a spectacular propensity for contributing to the progress of humankind by way of intellectual achievements. Such a propensity has logically given them "influence". However YOUR credibility as a judge of this influence is bankrupt because you have a published history here of purile "conspiracy-itis" whose venomous bias is aimed at "that group". I do NOT unequivocally support Israeli policies which are driven by the fear of the the stated aims of their neighbours to eliminate them. Such fears are merely exacerbated by anti-semites like you whose obsessions tend push Israel and its supporters to further extremes and reinforce their uncompromising rigidity.
I've known many Jews who are unrepentant Anglophiles. I believe, there must be something also "brainy" about Brits for so many Jews using them as a role model. The Brits did break the Nazi secret code by themselves!
Zippo, could you let the readers know a little bit about who you are, since you have such strong opinions about Jews. It would put a context around your posts that might even give credence to them.
But being the veritable masked Lone Ranger only casts you in the light of a very opinionated person with possibly no rational reason for your concerns.
Is your background one of the western monotheistic faiths? Are you first generation American? Did your family come from Europe, or an ex-colony of some European country? All this would take your black and white postings and give it some technicolor.
Foofie
Would you post a personality profile of yourself and what area of the world you live in so I could get a handle on why you believe as you do.
Foofie wrote:The problem, I believe is, from the reader's standpoint, that when individuals spout anti-Jewish/Israeli rhetoric, one usually understands what is the motivating factor:
-Had a Jewish teacher that failed him/her consistently.
-Had a bad date with someone Jewish.
-Lost some competition to someone Jewish.
-Strangers think one is Jewish due to certain physical traits.
-Likes the attention of being an anti-Semite.
However, the reader doesn't know (I don't know) what motivates Zippo in his fairly daily anti-Jewish/Israel postings?
I'm beginning to wonder if Zippo has a reason, or he's being controlled by forces beyond our understanding?
Can Jesus heal Zippo?
LOL...Foofie,...ya cracked me up..
