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Fri 28 Sep, 2007 01:57 pm
UPDATE 1-Clinton proposes $5,000 "baby bonds"
Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:29 PM ET
WASHINGTON, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton proposed on Friday giving every baby born in the United States $5,000 to start an account to use for paying for college.
Clinton made the comment at a forum sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus as she and Democratic rival Barack Obama competed for support from black voters a day after leading Republican presidential candidates skipped a debate on minority issues.
"I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time, so when that young person turns 18, if they have finished high school, they will be able to access it to go to college," Clinton said.
Clinton, a senator from New York, offered no details on how to pay for the program. The $5,000 "baby bonds" would accrue interest over time.
Obama, a senator from Illinois, spoke to Howard University's 2007 convocation ceremony and outlined a plan aimed at addressing what he called disparities in the U.S. justice system.
In his speech, Obama pledged to rid President George W. Bush's Justice Department of "ideologues and political cronies" and put in lawyers who will prosecute civil rights violations, employment discrimination and hate crimes.
Civil rights protests were staged in Jena, Louisiana, this month in the case of the "Jena 6" -- six teenagers charged in an assault on a white schoolmate at Jena High School.
The attack came amid tensions after an incident in which white students hung nooses from a schoolyard tree, a threatening gesture in a region of the country where blacks were sometimes lynched by whites after the Civil War.
Tens of thousands of black Americans marched in the town and the Jena 6 became a symbol for wider concerns about discrimination against young black males by the U.S. criminal justice system.
"It reminds us of the fact that we have a system that locks away too many young, first-time, non-violent offenders for the better part of their lives, a decision that's not made by a judge in a courtroom, but by politicians in Washington," Obama said.
On Thursday night, Republican candidates Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney, John McCain and Fred Thompson skipped a debate at historically black Morgan State University in Maryland.
Reuters
A $5000 bond at an interest rate of 3.5%/year will yield ( before taxes) after 18 years about $9287.
The average tuition in most private four year colleges today is of the order of $40,000 for the first year and then increases about 8% for years 2,3 and 4.
If tuition increases 8%/year, after 18 years the first year's tuition of the average private college will be about $159,841.
Year 1: $159,841
Year 2: $172,628
Year 3: $186,438
Year 4: $201,353
Total: $720,260
This baby is going to need much more than a $5000 bond to go to the average private college in the USA.
Maybe the $5000 bond should be used for books...
Exactly.
Election speeches are not worthy of consideration.
Instead of a $5000 bond, may it would be better to invest in a good stock.
Miller wrote:A $5000 bond at an interest rate of 3.5%/year will yield ( before taxes) after 18 years about $9287.
The average tuition in most private four year colleges today is of the order of $40,000 for the first year and then increases about 8% for years 2,3 and 4.
If tuition increases 8%/year, after 18 years the first year's tuition of the average private college will be about $159,841.
Year 1: $159,841
Year 2: $172,628
Year 3: $186,438
Year 4: $201,353
Total: $720,260
This baby is going to need much more than a $5000 bond to go to the average private college in the USA.
Maybe the $5000 bond should be used for books...
Average tuition for
public colleges are far, far less. It's also unreasonable to expect tuition to continually increase at 8% per year. So I take issue with both your initial premises and your math.
Also, it's a fund which parents should be able to add money into as time goes along; the 5k is a starting point, not an ending point.
Cycloptichorn
Huh, I agree with Cycloptichorn on this. Universities will reach a tipping point where the tuition costs out value the education received and students will no longer go there based on your projections.
Eventually the leftist preachers, er I mean college staff will figure it out.
Where did the 3.5% come from for that calculation?? lol
Today's 20 year bond rate on T-Bills is 4.58% for 20-year bonds and we aren't exactly in a hot bond market. During the 1980s those same t-bills were running in the 12%-13% range. 20 year T-Bills have been above 3.5% every month since June of 1957.
Where is the $5000 going to come from?
According to the CIA worldbook, the birthrate in the US is 14.16 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)
So,that means that 14,160,000 are born to every million people.
Now, thats per year.
Lets multiply that by $5000 and we get $70,800,000,000 per year per million people.
When you multiply that by 300,000,000 people in the US, where is that money going to come from?
It adds up to more then the entire us GGDP and federal budget combined.
mysteryman wrote:Where is the $5000 going to come from?
According to the CIA worldbook, the birthrate in the US is 14.16 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)
So,that means that 14,160,000 are born to every million people.
Now, thats per year.
Lets multiply that by $5000 and we get $70,800,000,000 per year per million people.
When you multiply that by 300,000,000 people in the US, where is that money going to come from?
It adds up to more then the entire us GGDP and federal budget combined.
Please, for all of us - check your math and repost.
Just to help you out a little. If the birth rate per year is 14.16/1000 people, then the number per million is.... 14,160, not 14,160,000.
How did you figure that a we have more people born per year then there are citizens of the US, I might ask?
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote:mysteryman wrote:Where is the $5000 going to come from?
According to the CIA worldbook, the birthrate in the US is 14.16 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)
So,that means that 14,160,000 are born to every million people.
Now, thats per year.
Lets multiply that by $5000 and we get $70,800,000,000 per year per million people.
When you multiply that by 300,000,000 people in the US, where is that money going to come from?
It adds up to more then the entire us GGDP and federal budget combined.
Please, for all of us - check your math and repost.
Just to help you out a little. If the birth rate per year is 14.16/1000 people, then the number per million is.... 14,160, not 14,160,000.
How did you figure that a we have more people born per year then there are citizens of the US, I might ask?
Cycloptichorn
Sorry, I moved the decimal point.
Either way,where is the money going to come from?
It still adds up to more then the entire US GDP every year.
mysteryman wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote:mysteryman wrote:Where is the $5000 going to come from?
According to the CIA worldbook, the birthrate in the US is 14.16 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)
So,that means that 14,160,000 are born to every million people.
Now, thats per year.
Lets multiply that by $5000 and we get $70,800,000,000 per year per million people.
When you multiply that by 300,000,000 people in the US, where is that money going to come from?
It adds up to more then the entire us GGDP and federal budget combined.
Please, for all of us - check your math and repost.
Just to help you out a little. If the birth rate per year is 14.16/1000 people, then the number per million is.... 14,160, not 14,160,000.
How did you figure that a we have more people born per year then there are citizens of the US, I might ask?
Cycloptichorn
Sorry, I moved the decimal point.
Either way,where is the money going to come from?
It still adds up to more then the entire US GDP every year.
MM: Please. Hit the 'start' button in the lower left corner. Then hit 'run.' then type in 'calc.' This will start the calculator. Then, double-check this math:
14,160 * 300 * 5000 = 21,240,000,000 , or, in laymans terms, 21 + billion dollars.
That's the amount we spend in
two months in Iraq.
The total GDP of the US:
$13.13 trillion (2006 est.)
Trillion is bigger then
Billion. By a lot.
I think we could find the money, especially if we cut back on other forms of federal student aid.
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote:mysteryman wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote:mysteryman wrote:Where is the $5000 going to come from?
According to the CIA worldbook, the birthrate in the US is 14.16 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)
So,that means that 14,160,000 are born to every million people.
Now, thats per year.
Lets multiply that by $5000 and we get $70,800,000,000 per year per million people.
When you multiply that by 300,000,000 people in the US, where is that money going to come from?
It adds up to more then the entire us GGDP and federal budget combined.
Please, for all of us - check your math and repost.
Just to help you out a little. If the birth rate per year is 14.16/1000 people, then the number per million is.... 14,160, not 14,160,000.
How did you figure that a we have more people born per year then there are citizens of the US, I might ask?
Cycloptichorn
Sorry, I moved the decimal point.
Either way,where is the money going to come from?
It still adds up to more then the entire US GDP every year.
MM: Please. Hit the 'start' button in the lower left corner. Then hit 'run.' then type in 'calc.' This will start the calculator. Then, double-check this math:
14,160 * 300 * 5000 = 21,240,000,000 , or, in laymans terms, 21 + billion dollars.
That's the amount we spend in
two months in Iraq.
The total GDP of the US:
$13.13 trillion (2006 est.)
Trillion is bigger then
Billion. By a lot.
I think we could find the money, especially if we cut back on other forms of federal student aid.
Cycloptichorn
But you are not figuring in the fact that Hillary wants to give that money away EVERY YEAR.
Also,your numbers dont figure the fact that there are 300 million (approx) people in the US.
mysteryman wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote:mysteryman wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote:mysteryman wrote:Where is the $5000 going to come from?
According to the CIA worldbook, the birthrate in the US is 14.16 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)
So,that means that 14,160,000 are born to every million people.
Now, thats per year.
Lets multiply that by $5000 and we get $70,800,000,000 per year per million people.
When you multiply that by 300,000,000 people in the US, where is that money going to come from?
It adds up to more then the entire us GGDP and federal budget combined.
Please, for all of us - check your math and repost.
Just to help you out a little. If the birth rate per year is 14.16/1000 people, then the number per million is.... 14,160, not 14,160,000.
How did you figure that a we have more people born per year then there are citizens of the US, I might ask?
Cycloptichorn
Sorry, I moved the decimal point.
Either way,where is the money going to come from?
It still adds up to more then the entire US GDP every year.
MM: Please. Hit the 'start' button in the lower left corner. Then hit 'run.' then type in 'calc.' This will start the calculator. Then, double-check this math:
14,160 * 300 * 5000 = 21,240,000,000 , or, in laymans terms, 21 + billion dollars.
That's the amount we spend in
two months in Iraq.
The total GDP of the US:
$13.13 trillion (2006 est.)
Trillion is bigger then
Billion. By a lot.
I think we could find the money, especially if we cut back on other forms of federal student aid.
Cycloptichorn
But you are not figuring in the fact that Hillary wants to give that money away EVERY YEAR.
Also,your numbers dont figure the fact that there are 300 million (approx) people in the US.
Okay, last math lesson for you for the day:
At a rate of 14,160 births
per year, per million multiplied by
300 ('cause we have 300 million people) times 5000 per kid, you get 21 billion dollars. So, yes, I
did factor in that we have 300 million people in the US. You simply didn't follow my math correctly.
Secondly, so what if this is every year? How much do we spend on Pell grants every year? The GDP
Per Year is 13.3 or so Trillion; about 634 times the proposed amount. We can manage.
Cycloptichorn
fishin wrote:Where did the 3.5% come from for that calculation??
Average value for an I-bond...
Average tuition for State school ( live-at-home student) is of the order of $14,000 in year 2007.
After 18 years, and 8% rate of increase, the first year tuition will be: $56,000.
year 1: $56,000
year 2: $60,475
year 3: $65,313
year 4: $70538
total: $252,300
Books now cost about $1500/year. Increases of 8%/year will raise this to $6000/year after 18 years or about $24,000 for 4 years.
Total for live at home student: $258,000
For resident student: total increases to> $528,600
The kid doesn't need a $5000 bond, she needs a a set of very rich parents to put her through college.
If upon graduation from college the kid now wants to go to law or medical school, just add another $1 million+ to the total.
mysteryman wrote:Where is the $5000 going to come from?
It's coming from the sucker tax-payers...
Quote:"I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time, so when that young person turns 18, if they have finished high school, they will be able to access it to go to college," Clinton said.
"if they have finished high school"...
Good one!
How many of those kids, who would need (!) the $5000 to attend college actually finish high school? Would it surprise you that more than 40% of minorities ( exclude Asian Americans ) on average don't finish high school?
So, we give the babies from the affluent homes $5000 to finish college, and the babies from the poor minority homes who most likely will have difficulty finishing high school. nothing?
No...most likely, the latter will be forced into military service.
fishin wrote:During the 1980s those same t-bills were running in the 12%-13% range.
Big deal! So were many of the War Bonds...
I don't see the the US Gov issuing any War Bonds today. As a matter of fact, didn't the Gov stop the issue of the 30 year bond for awhile and then decided to start it up again?
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