GOP Says They'll Continue Racist Voter Suppression Tactics

Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
To buy alcohol you need to show ID. To board a plane, you need to show ID. Yet, this has not led to a need for anyone to carry "papers" with them every day.

Considering the routinely low voter turn out, I see no reason why showing an ID to vote would be an issue. If you don't want to vote, you'll have no worries about carrying "papers".

You should not have to show an ID to get on an domestic-domestic airplane; it's ridiculous, a scam in order to allow the airlines to make more money. There's no vested interest in knowing who is on what plane.

Cycloptichorn

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McGentrix wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
To buy alcohol you need to show ID. To board a plane, you need to show ID. Yet, this has not led to a need for anyone to carry "papers" with them every day.

Considering the routinely low voter turn out, I see no reason why showing an ID to vote would be an issue. If you don't want to vote, you'll have no worries about carrying "papers".

You should not have to show an ID to get on an domestic-domestic airplane; it's ridiculous, a scam in order to allow the airlines to make more money. There's no vested interest in knowing who is on what plane.

Cycloptichorn

Why is it required to show an ID to get on an airplane?

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
To buy alcohol you need to show ID. To board a plane, you need to show ID. Yet, this has not led to a need for anyone to carry "papers" with them every day.

Considering the routinely low voter turn out, I see no reason why showing an ID to vote would be an issue. If you don't want to vote, you'll have no worries about carrying "papers".

You should not have to show an ID to get on an domestic-domestic airplane; it's ridiculous, a scam in order to allow the airlines to make more money. There's no vested interest in knowing who is on what plane.

Cycloptichorn

You call 9-11 no vested interest! Are you insane?

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Baldimo wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
To buy alcohol you need to show ID. To board a plane, you need to show ID. Yet, this has not led to a need for anyone to carry "papers" with them every day.

Considering the routinely low voter turn out, I see no reason why showing an ID to vote would be an issue. If you don't want to vote, you'll have no worries about carrying "papers".

You should not have to show an ID to get on an domestic-domestic airplane; it's ridiculous, a scam in order to allow the airlines to make more money. There's no vested interest in knowing who is on what plane.

Cycloptichorn

You call 9-11 no vested interest! Are you insane?

Yeah, having to show an ID before you got on a plane really helped keep 9/11 from happening, hmm? And it would keep the same thing from happening again, eh?

Jeez, think a bit before you post

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
To buy alcohol you need to show ID. To board a plane, you need to show ID. Yet, this has not led to a need for anyone to carry "papers" with them every day.

Considering the routinely low voter turn out, I see no reason why showing an ID to vote would be an issue. If you don't want to vote, you'll have no worries about carrying "papers".

You should not have to show an ID to get on an domestic-domestic airplane; it's ridiculous, a scam in order to allow the airlines to make more money. There's no vested interest in knowing who is on what plane.

Cycloptichorn

You call 9-11 no vested interest! Are you insane?

Yeah, having to show an ID before you got on a plane really helped keep 9/11 from happening, hmm? And it would keep the same thing from happening again, eh?

Jeez, think a bit before you post

Cycloptichorn

If we know who is getting on a plane then we know who to watch for on the watch lists for known and suspected terrorists. It also gives us a way of knowing who was on a plane in the event it goes down.

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So if a terrorist blows up a transit bus, are we going to require people to show IDs and go through metal detectors to get on a bus? You fear mongering cowards should seek help and leave the rest of us alone.

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Roxxxanne wrote:

So if a terrorist blows up a transit bus, are we going to require people to show IDs and go through metal detectors to get on a bus? You fear mongering cowards should seek help and leave the rest of us alone.

and if a terrorist leaves a car bomb somewhere, force everyone to show id before getting in their own car Very Happy

i think it was the xfiles movie where someone blew up a soda machine.

if only that machine had carded him! goddamn, those card-reader people are going to make a fortune. even if the terrorists will simply make cards that work in them, it will cost the bastards an EXTRA FEE!

at present, any terrorist can come along, put three coins in, and a hatch will open that says "please insert bomb." i must agree with my right wing friends, THAT kind of lapse in security has got to end.

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Roxxxanne wrote:

So if a terrorist blows up a transit bus, are we going to require people to show IDs and go through metal detectors to get on a bus? You fear mongering cowards should seek help and leave the rest of us alone.

You know more damage can be done with an airplane being taken over then a bus. Once again I point to 9-11. You may call me a fear mongering coward all you want, at least I put my money where my mouth was when it came to defending this country. What have you done to protect your fellow Americans?

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All you liberals afraid of your own shadow and not carrying ID should move to the left wing bastion of Chicago, where you will be photographed everywhere you go.

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cjhsa wrote:

If you don't have your name on a lease or title, or if you are on welfare, you shouldn't be able to vote. Period.

F-cking BS! But...it'd be OK for you to put on the "uniform" and go to a piss-ass country and fight some a-hole war, but not be able to vote 'cause " you don't have your name on a lease or title, or if you are on welfare"?

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I sense an irrational paranoia from those opposed to having to show a valid ID to be able to vote.

THey seem to all think that "someone" is going to be after them if they show ID.

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Who are "they?" You've got exactly two members here who have objected to or ridiculed the idea that identification be required to vote--that's hardly a groundswell movement, nor evidence of wide-spread paranoia. I personally have no real objection to showing identification in order to vote, but the system in place in Ohio, in which one signs a voter roll immediately beneath a facsimile of the signature used at the time of registration, or completing a provisional ballot, with a detachable strip on which one signs, so the signature can be checked against the facsimile on record, would suit just as well, and obviate the need to show identification.

As for the issue of carrying identification, Federal Courts have ruled that people can be required to possess identification, but cannot be required to have it on their person, nor to show it upon demand. They can only be required to produce identification if detained for probable cause, or required to do so by a court. The objection to being required to produce identification in order to vote is not unreasonable. An objection to meeting some reasonable standard to establish one's eligibility would be ridiculous--but as the use of the signature facsimile in Ohio demonstrates, showing identification is neither the only reasonable means of demonstrating one's voting eligibility, and not the ultimately effective means. False identification can easily be obtained. Signing one's name in front of a polling place worker who can compare it to a facsimile while the name is being signed is far more effective.

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How many handwriting experts do you have in Ohio. This looks like another way to slow down the vote where ever a politician decides they want to slow down the system. When I write my sig it is different every time I write it. Anyone who says they can identify me by my sig is mostly wrong. Only hand writing experts can do that. I've found that Pol judges aren't expert at anything. Not even voting.

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How about being able to read? That seems reasonable as well....

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The objection that I have heard for Voter ID cards being required is that there are people that don't drive or can't drive and can't afford ID just to vote. If they have to go to the DMV in Raleigh to change the address on your license, you have two locations from which to choose, and this is the friggin' capital. People would have to get to those locations, wait.... wait some more, provide all of their required papers (SS card, birth certificate, bill with their address, etc), get their photo taken, pay $25 dollars they may not have and then wait for another bus to get home... Oh, wait. One of the locations isn't on a bus route.

I had a difficult time getting my hands on all of the required paperwork to identify myself for my license. Then I had to go through it again with each teenager. Every time I have to be there, several people are turned away for not having all of the required paperwork and they have to go get it and return sometime somehow someway.

Stephen Jr. doesn't drive. He did get a State ID card. But we paid for it. It wasn't something he could have done had he been on his SSI living on his own.

So, there's that argument against voter ID requirements which I find more legitimate than the argument that people are riding around the country on buses to stuff ballot boxes and must be stopped.

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You know, if we had a voter turnout of 80-90% I could buy that, but we don't.

Considering most people don't actually vote because it is too inconvenient for them I don't expect them to get an ID. Those that want to vote and do not have an ID will have no problem getting one.

One thing it DOES do is help prevent voter fraud. No ID, no vote.

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Rabel, i hope you aren't in the banking business and dealing with large sums. Using signature facsimiles doesn't rely upon someone being an expert graphologist, just as bankers don't expect cashiers to be expert graphologists when referring to the signature card you complete when opening an account. The point is whether or not you can fluently sign a reasonably similar signature to the facsimile while someone watches you do it. It isn't a point-by-point exact match they are looking for, but whether or not you can quickly and fluently produce a signature which is a close match. The potential for fraud is reduced in insignificant levels, and much lower levels than would be the case with ID cards, which are easily and cheaply counterfeited by anyone with the money and the motivation.

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In case anyone is pleased to miss the point, whether one uses signature facsimiles or identification cards, the potential for voting fraud is reduced to minimal, almost non-existent levels. It is absurd to suggest that people would be going to polling places and successfully forging the signatures of actual voters in order to commit fraud--which is the implication of Rabel's objection, which i suspect was not well thought out. By the same token, using false identification to perpetrate voter fraud would entail producing a bundle of false IDs, with which the hopeful fraudulent voter would register to vote for different precincts, and then go from precinct to precinct to vote fraudulently. That would be an enormously expensive and time-consuming process just to get a handful of fraudulent votes. To get the thousands and thousands of votes which would be necessary to effect a significant fraudulent outcome would be prohibitively expensive, and expensive of time as well as of money. In a situation such as the one in Ohio in 2004, when it took about three hours to vote, it would be a failure, too, since the user of fake IDs would only have been able to vote a half dozen times at most, without even considering the time to go from one precinct to another, find parking, etc.

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Setanta wrote:

In case anyone is pleased to miss the point, whether one uses signature facsimiles or identification cards, the potential for voting fraud is reduced to minimal, almost non-existent levels.

ORLY? i would have never thought the problem with voting fraud had anything to do with identification!

the problem is that people get knocked off the list in huge numbers. african americans for instance, for having the same birthday as some 5 other people, one of whom is not eligible to vote.

then there are the truckloads of votes that get misplaced. the voting may be electronic, but the votes can be stored in any number of ways, dropped off trucks, etc. and there are records of exactly that happening in the 2004 election.

the worst fraud happens before people go into vote, or after. how would id cards help? SIMPLE. they wouldn't make much difference whatsoever.

Quote:

It is absurd to suggest that people would be going to polling places and successfully forging the signatures of actual voters in order to commit fraud

it would be absurd to suggest that. in fact it was absurd to even bring it up, given the above.

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I have never had a problem even though I have very common black sounding last name and and a birthday as common as anyone elses! Laughing

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GOP Says They'll Continue Racist Voter Suppression Tactics

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