Family Therapy

Background basics:
Death of parent. Sudden abt. 6 weeks from diagnosis, unexpected and unplanned.
Other parent in chemotherapy both at the time of death and again now.
Youngest child graduating from college in AA and NA.
Middle child professional but living in attached apt.
Oldest child living away but in driving distance with fiance.
Lots of issues but, not anything too terribly abnormal really.
Communication needed to open between siblings.
Middle sibling now not going to therapy.
Fiance now going as well to work on relationship issues as well as other issues.
Year anniversary of death coming up here this week.

Resolutions: they have been able to talk to each other about how they feel about the death, and about each other.
Unresolved issues: dealing with death, facing objects of deceased, realizing eventual death of other parent.

Quinn:

Hi! If you were in charge of the therapy, what steps would you take that aren't being taken now in order for them to progress??

Anon

I don't quite understand - "Facing objects of the deceased" - they haven't figured out what to do with clothes and personal papers? That's more of a housekeeping problem. The other two things should be straightforward... everybody is going to die and some may go sooner. Sad, but true. Live happily while you can. Read some Oriental philosphy if you need to.

I think if it were my family, I'd react like the middle sib, which is not too strange since I am one. (I guess I wouldn't be good in family therapy.)

Quinn, either I shouldn't have bothered posting or else I'm reiterating what you're saying.

Im not the therapist so, I dont really know now do I?
Im sure the sessions have gone by the wayside due to other issues that need to be resolved before tackling what needs to be resolved, and thats understandable however, its sad that these issues they are dealing with werent dealt with in the past...say by their parents, who are really great people and done a fairly good job with the family structure as it is, although obviously lacking in some areas.
I also understand the issues of time in therapy but, you know..when you go weekly for both personal and family therapy you would think that a year would see more progress even in a larger group. I dont know, I havent done group therapy so, its just a guess.
Mostly though since time is of the essence here in one aspect, the eventual death of another parent, I would think that a balance could be made to resolve the issues pertaining to that or down the road they will go again, seemingly at this point, to continued therapy for an extended amount of time.
Its a double edged sword, if they dont resolve the issues at hand, and find what they need to go on, it wont be pretty. Add to that more issues to arise and the complications of those in addition to what they are handling now...jeesh. Unbelieveable.
It certainly carries with it the need for this therapy but, extending it so has seen the need for medication as well. Given the history, extended therapy and medication is all that is on the horizon.
They have not reached the point where they do what needs to get done. Will they ever? I dont know, I have incredible doubts, although here and there I see some hope. Its very sad. But, that is only my view of the situation and doesnt exactly mean all that much.
Like I said, I am venting a bit here because its personal to me as well. I feel my thoughts are very harsh about it because I realize the complexity of it and the possible future and really hope for some progress more immediate for their own sake. The ability to go forward with life issues and all of that is quite an important task and I feel the progress should be greater..thats just me though and Im doing my best to have patience because thats my problem, not theirs.
Perhaps someone with family therapy experience could give me a few thoughts on the process, someone could let me know that my thoughts of the extended therapy issues and all is probably not far fetched, you know what I mean?
Its not that I am critisizing of the therapy just having hope for a family that I care about to get to resolution. Feeling frustration for them I suppose. As well as doing my part in enabling them to not resolve some issues. I know this all very well. I also know however that my part in the enabling has been my resolution to the situation but, they asked me to do it and it has been good for me. Now, I am at the point where I have to poop or get off the pot so to say. Im not sure if they are ready for that or if I should just push them into it. Like I said, I have harsh thoughts on it since I have resolved that part of it but, I havent had the issues they have. I am considering the best approach and hoping that I can be of assistance as well if they need it, without enabling but with guidance and caring.

Piffka, no really..thas helpful.
My thoughts exactly really when eliminating myself from the situation.
I would think it would be straightforward to live life while you can and that some people will go sooner, and I understand with the recent death of one parent an absolute rejection of the thought of the other while trying their best but, come on here peeps...this is reality.
Its not really a housekeeping issue alone. Its a business housekeeping issue. The mother and I have been running the business the father left undone. The kids will not hardly enter the place. The fiance and the yougest sibling are the only ones that just recently have buckled up and gone in to face it head on. And with the anniversary coming now, all are distraught again.
Its exhausting really.

My family had a similar situation... my mom died and though she'd been ill a while, my dad hadn't really faced it. Then he gets into a rebound marriage in Las Vegas to a woman who turned out to be a gold-digger. Then he dies. I'm left taking care of the real estate business, such as it is, while of the four other sibs, one -- the attorney didn't advise dad on estate matters (that's not her area of expertise - so there were three wills), also she doesn't know what he was up to despite being the executrix - since he didn't want to discuss his death, not facing that anymore than he faced his first wife's; another sib is married to a guy in AA & NA apparently only for the connections; another is willing but busy -- then gets into a horrible feud with the AA/NA guy; the fourth is going through an ugly divorce & is totally depressed.

The stepmother decides to fight the kids for the estate. Two of the three are so poor that they're practically on assistance and having been living off the good will of dad, they're not hoping for a quick settlement of the estate. Meanwhile the estate & property taxes have to be paid, attorneys, too, because we have to pay for the gold-digger's attorney as well as our own. Akkkkkkk. It's enough to make you scream. It took five years before the estate was settled and we're still reeling, three years after that. It can take that long, but I advise that it doesn't. It'll make you grow gray hairs. Maybe we should have tried family therapy??? Naaah. We needed a hit man.

At least the surviving spouse in your scenario is not remarrying.

For your case a lot depends on if the family wants to keep the business. Maybe they can sell and get enough money to keep the mom afloat. (Could you buy it? You probably know the operation... the mom is the one who is so desperately ill, right?) It is good that the middle one is living at home and, I assume, helping out the mom.

Anyway, it is really a sad situation and you are involved in that weird tangential sort of way. You probably feel loyalty to the man who died. It is hard to understand death, which is weird considering everybody does it. So little planning goes on.

quinn1--

Your allergic reaction to a year of Warm Fuzzies is a sign of your mental health.

Obviously, you are not the family therapist (who has probably collected a great deal of money either from this disfunctional family or from the insurance company). I'm not saying that the therapist is deliberately extending the treatment time, but I note in passing that the therapist has no financial benefit from terminating treatment.

I'm not quite clear as to how you fit into this disfunctional family. Whatever your precise slot, you are spending your time and energy running the family business. This expenditure of time and energy gives you the right to limit what else you choose to do. Even if you weren't expending time and energy for the common good, you have the right to limit what you choose to do.

I've known a number of people in therapy (family and individual) who have decided that spending time with a professional listener is one of the most fufilling and exciting things that has ever happened to them. They are hooked. They are junkies.

Family Therapy junkies have the extra thrill of being able to say what they dislike and resent about everyone else present--and everyone else present has to sit and listen. This is addictive stuff.

You'd rather relax with a good book or a good movie or a walk in the woods than spend another theraputic hour with a disfunctional family? Go for it. Announce that the "seeming" lack of progress is very frustrating for you right now and that you need a rest and time apart to restore your perspective because you must save your time and energy for the family business--particularly if the family business is paying for the therapy.

If you are accused of being self-centered, cold-hearted and mercenary sobeit. You've been doing your best for nearly a year now and I doubt that this bunch intends to elect you Queen of the May by unanimous decision. Further, if you were chosen Queen of the May do you really want this position?



In other words this bunch of therapy junkies can't accept the reality of death, the necessity of making major changes because of death and they want Mama to live forever!

Quinn1, you need a rest. You have earned a rest. You cannot force these lost children to grow up and get on with their lives--but you are certainly allowed to limit your time in the sandbox.

Don't go away mad--just get away for awhile. You have your own issues to deal with, your own adventures to seek with eyes open to a world of beauty, charm and adventure.

Hold your dominion.

I agree with Noddy24. Good therapy enables a person, or a family, to attain the skills that they need to cope with difficult situations. Then the people can generalize these coping skills to other situations that may come later.

If your family is in constant need of this therapy, then, IMO, it is not doing the job for which it is intended. It is lovely for the therapist's "bottom line", but IMO a whole year is far too long. Why don't you get off the merry go round?

(A truly stellar Noddy rant. Well, too pleasant and articulate to be called a rant, but stellar. The cadences alone are just lovely. I agree with the content, too. )

I don't know about how all this works in the USA, but a family therapy lasting one year would never be paid here.

Bravo, Noddy!!!
I have nothing left to add.

Quinn:

Your answer sounded perhaps defensive, and perhaps I offended you. I had no intention of doing so, and I apologize if I upset you in any way.

I'm a little confused about what you're doing in this mess except for the helping run some kind of business that I'm not clear on.

That not really being important ... it sounds as this family didn't start being dysfunctional upon the death. It sounds like they have been that way for some time. Add to that the total unpreparedness for death of any kind, and any real death planning, I can see why it's an emotional war zone.

Both JayBea's and my family have done just the opposite, and the "business" of dying has been very smooth ... clockwork almost.

The emotions are another thing indeed, and death whether expected, planned for, or not, is never an easy thing to deal with. Between JayBea and I, we have lost 7 major family members in five years. Mothers, fathers, grandmother and on. All immediate family. JayBea, who with her many illnesses and disabilities (seemingly the weakest link) turned out being the glue and the backbone for us all. If you only knew, it could be a novel!

Considering the total mix of unpreparedness, shock, confusion, failure to cope, and family dysfuntion ... a year doesn't sound excessive at all. It takes time for people to heal, grow up, and learn to funtion while under fire. Especially if they've never had to, and have never considered the possibilitys.

Take it easy on them, but more importantly, take it easy on yourself. It'll all work out ...

Breath Quinn, breath deep and remember that for you to be any good for them at all, you need to be good to yourself!!

Anon

Without knowing the history of the family and it's dynamics, it's hard for anyone to know whether a year is a long time, or no time at all for therapy. I've seen good results with 2-3 sessions. I've also worked with people whose families have had therapy for years - they needed it - it accomplished things for different members of the group at different times - sometimes they went together - sometimes they went in small groups - sometimes they went alone. Therapy is definitely not a one-size fits all proposition. Similarly, response to death is different for each person. There are those who can move on almost immediately. There are others (my next-door neighbour is a classic example) who seem to suffer more with each passing day.

There is not necessarily something wrong with a person, or family, that continues to need treatment after a year. It's possible that only one or two members need the active treatment, while others are 'done' and only are needed to support those who are still in difficulty. It's equally possible that the therapist is carrying on ineffectively and inefficiently (though their peer review would bite them on the butt here if that was the case - of course, that's assuming the therapist is a member of a licensed, and self-regulating group as is required here).

Quinn, are you attending therapy with the family? I just noticed someone suggest that.



edited to add 'on'

Page 2 wouldn't load but here goes.

Therapy isn't a thing. It's not something a therapist does to someone. There are no time perameters. Therapy is hard work. Therapy is at times very painful. Change comes in spurts, some quickly, some in time. Walters comment about a year is shortsighted.

After being in a coma for 2+ weeks, clinical depression that had been in check simply consumed me. I've been going to therapy for quite a while. I do the work. my therapist is a mediator. A traffic cop. I dig, I look, I think, I cry, I question my emotions, I ask why I think and feel the things I do. I make guesses, I find answers and Peter helps me form these feelings and thoughts into some answer that has meaning for me. I do the work though. Is there a time frame? Not that I know of. My wife thinks that Peter should do more. She's just not sure what he should do more of. Her thought is that a therapist's job is to make a person better. Only I can make myself "better".

Standing on the outside looking in is difficult. What makes sense to you may have no relationship to those in therapy. Being at the end of a rope made no sense to anyone except me. It's bneen a long journey since that point. There is no difinative standard to measure the progress outside the inner peace that is now replacing the anger and saddness of the past. It has never been time driven and I have no termination date. Therapy is not an addiction. Some weeks, maybe several, I just don't go because I just don't have any issues to discuss or explore. Some weeks are a bitch and some worse than that.

I say all this not to actually answer your question but to simply give another point of view. I understand your frustration and you and my wife probably have similar views at times. But, what sems simple on the surface is not always what it sems to be. I do know that simply chating once a week is not therapy. Talking is not therapy. It's hard. It's doing not just talking. It is self confrontation and exposing the lies that you've told youerself for years. It's forcing yourself to grow when you may not want to or, are fearful, of growing. It is not a spectator sport. Try not to evaluate progress on what you are capable of doing or on what you might feel are reasonable expectations.

Then again, youmight want to consider that these are the ramblings of a man who, himself, is crazy!

I wrote so long that I missed the other postings. As ebeth noted. If this is really troubling for you, you may want to consider attending with them if that is possable.

PIffka...gosh...a hit man could be the answer for you..jeesh...you sound like therapy isnt needed, basics are pretty much clear but, yeah...you never know now do you?
Regarding the business, yes, I could take it over however, I don't want to. The mother isnt interested in selling it just settling it which has proven to be more than we thought. Its a photography business and with that, there were weddings on contract that we were able to get someone else to shoot, someone to take over a dance school contract but, they had to use the studio space, and someone to give referrals to. There were however weddings in process and under contract the studio has to complete them or refund all monies involved. I have finally finished up those in process, basically, the actual time consuming work with the customers stuff is completed. After that though, we have to contact all customers within the last 7 years and find their negatives, release the copywrite, and have them release liability on the studio. The daughter was just beginning to assist with this when she started feeling the anniversary blues and having trouble working in the studio. The taxes have to be completed for last year, the fiance and mother are working on that. The two boys though...nothing. When really pushed by the mother regarding a computer issue one will do something eventually. When asked to help clean out someother areas of the studio, the other says he'll get to it. Neither one seems to be able to get to the point where they go in there and do what needs to be done when it needs to be done however. After all this customer stuff is done we have 30 years of negatives that the mother would like to somehow contact those customers and offer to them instead of just throwing them out.
I worked for the father for 12 years. He was not only a co-worker but, a mentor, and a father figure, as well as a good firend. This has been so incredibly hard I cant even put it into words.
The Studio is in a large barn next to the house, so the family is always around and about in some way. Having me and sickly Mom be the ones who have been out there struggling to get through this absolutely amazes me. When I orginally heard about the therapy, I thought, great!, leaps and bounds perhaps. Nada. Its as if they've taken it personally only and not thought of the big picture here.
Noddy-you know...that was a fabulous bit of informative information if I ever heard one
I want to not only limit myself for my own good but, for theirs as well. My fear however is that failing health Mom will be the one stuck with the crap and I do truely care for them as a second family so, I wonder what my putting my foot down, no matter what way I accomplish will have in store.
Phoenix-yeah, getting off the MerryGoRound is certainly how mind numbing a situation like this can feel like.
Walter-Im guessing Mom is footing the bill for the therapy, but thats only a guess.
Anon-sorry to sound defensive back...didnt mean to be...ah well...onward. Perhaps with the above you can get a gleam on the business side of it and yes, I agree, the family certainly was dysfunctional beforehand. Actually the family has been trying to prepare for the death of Mom for the last few years, and this side swiped them off kilter a bit. Everything had been basically handled for Moms eventual death but, nothing for this had been done. Considering the dysfunction and elements of personal issues, I can see where getting to the point of a year later, and with that whole anniversary thing stirring up emotions, my doubts for how to continue on with this and the best timing for it is what makes me think on it at such great leangths.
ehBeth-Im not attending therapy with the family...umm, no, really. I had therapy once..four sessions and wham bam you're normal so why are you here but, glad you stopped in for that time we thought you might need some assistance, stop by and see us again anytime.
I realize thats not how everyone is, I realize there are different issues for each person but, there are issues which have to be handled with this business and that part of the property in a timely manner. I would think that at some point here in the really near future these kids would realize that there are more important things in life at this moment with their Mom, and that letting her go out into the studio to do things because they cant face it isnt helping anything. I would also think that it would be a theraputic family event if they all did this stuff together, or when others were around to aid in the grief they will feel, etc etc. But, no, lets just do our own little thing and in time someone else will take care of everything else is the feeling I get from them.
Morganwood, I understand the need and the lengths of therapy for many issues. I understand the different paths each person must take but, what I dont understand is that if this therapy is family therapy that after a year the family part of it still hasnt made progress. Thanks for stopping in though guy, with this business you might get a incling of what not to leave for others to do, if nothing else. Really though, hearing the in therapy side of it is always a good balance and I guess Im trying to figure that out and the best way to approach it all.
My thoughts actually are to either have a nice phone conversation with the therapist to review what I see, because she doesnt know that really, she is getting bits and pieces and being pulled in the direction of this that and the other thing, or perhaps if I should call a family meeting to go over these things. I dont want to put a wrench in the work so to say of the therapist however, I care enough for these people that I dont want to just take time away from it all. I also dont want to just give one person information that might not be clear to others, etc. And Im not saying that id go over and call them silly for therapy or anything outlandish, just let them know how hard its been for their Mom and for me, how much more needs to be done, how I would hope they could pick the pace up a bit in assisting with it and all of the reasons behind why I think that way. If I do that....well, its open communication time and thats helpful. Im not enabling them to escape from what they have to face eventually, and am offering them a chance to heal from the death in one way and connect with their Mom in another, etc etc.
I dont know. If I talk to this therapist she might want to make it a session....ugh. Im not all about therapy and warm and fuzzies, Im about getting the things done that need to be done, even if Im crying when Im doing it. I face it head on so, its hard for me to be as warm and fuzzy as I think this therapy might be considering the time and issues involved with it. I know Mom is doing her best to both heal and help the family while keeping her children safe as she can, I mean, she is a Mom but, I see wo much frustration so many times when Im with her, I think she's stuck between a rock and a hard place and she really right now just takes everything day by day which is good. The poor thing would fall over if she thought about it all I believe.

I dont know. Im tired, Im frustrated, and all of that so, Im jsut at a point where I dont know which way to turn with it and I have to make some decisions here in the next few weeks.

having everyones input is helpful, as always, and greatly appreciated as well.

quinn--

I doubt that the therapist would accept your input "behind the backs" of her clients. Even though these bereaved children are acting like brats, they are legal adults and entitled to professional privacy.

Further, her focus is their total well being, not the family business.

Rather than a family meeting (or becoming the featured speaker at the therapy session) sit down and write a very matter of fact letter. Mention that you can see the strain on their mother and you are growing resentful to them and their shortcomings (as far as the business goes) on her behalf. Make it clear that while you loved and respected their father, the year's anniversary is a sign to you that you must be moving on with your own life.

List step by step what must be done to close out the business--and emphasize that closing the business will probably extend their mother's life.

Set a deadline for your departure. This date could be December, 2003 or December, 2004 or any time in between. I know you don't want to be Woman Who Leaves Cancer Patient In the Lurch, but you don't want to be Chief Cook, Bottlewasher, Doormat and Photography Assistant for the rest of your life, either. If you are doing the work, why should they bother?

You are terribly frazzled right now because you have a great deal of the sweaty work and none of the power. This is a crazy-making combination. Quinn, there won't be light at the end of the tunnel until you go to the hardware store for a Coleman lantern and extra white gas.

Wouldn't their dead father, your mentor, be unhappy at the way his kids are behaving? They are not cutting their mother any slack--and they are not likely to unless their perspective is changed. Your departure deadline could be very theraputic.

Then wait for feed back.

During the next Family Therapy session, they will probably talk behind your back. They probably won't change their behavior.

A week after your first manifesto, do a short follow up letter to the kids you haven't heard from. Meanwhile, help Mama wind up as many of the business details as are possible. In mobile America she's not going to be able to return negatives of 30 years ago.

If there is money available, consider a quarter page newspaper add announcing the end of the business and that negatives can be picked up during business hours until suchandsuch a date.

As long as you put up with these wretched brats, you are being an enabler. Your work and forebearance gives them the wiggle room to be bratty.

Remember you aren't being "mean" to them. You are treating yourself with kindness and dignity--both of which have been in short supply lately in your life. You've given them nearly a year of mourning--you won't be running out, you'll be exiting with due dignity and decorum.

Can you find an inspiring poster of Clark Gable as Rhett Butler? "Frankly m'dear, as of the above date, I don't give a damn."

Hold your dominion.

Quinn, please please please do not consider calling a meeting or any such thing.

I like most of Noddy's plan - though I'd make one modification. I'd look at letting the therapist know what you're planning to do - and offer the therapist the opportunity to discuss whether you or the therapist should present it to the family. Definitely let the therapist know that it is not an 'if/when i go on with my life' but 'i'm going on, and i'm starting now'. There will be significant fall-out, and both of you need to be prepared.

The little ad for the negatives is brilliant - that's how I see it handled around here.

I have repeatedly mentioned the newpaper ad for the negatives, no one is listening. humph.
Great minds think alike.
Yes, I dont really want to call a family meeting as I am an outsider in more ways than an insider but, wouldnt a mass family email/letter be the same thing?
And preparing the therapist ahead of time, is this something I should do really?
Should I let Mom in on my intentions if I do do this? She and I have long conversations of many things and I can see where she would certainly understand it all, but, I do see the Mom instinct coming out, and thats where I get frazzled. Even though her inability to chastize the children properly isnt my affair, her interests are in my heart at the moment for her own good.
blah.
anywho...will see what steps have been taken tonight so, maybe itll be some grand update later.
fingers crossed.

thanks for listening once again, thanks for the thoughts.