Wal-Martization of the American mind?

Re: Okie

old europe wrote:

Foofie wrote:
I also have the personal feeling, that if everyone was forthcoming with one's country of citizenship, then what I'm afraid I might conclude is that certain forums have a degree of anti-American clannishness.

If everybody stated their country of origin, you would feel that some forums had "a degree of anti-American clannishness?"

Why exactly would that be? Because you might discover that half of the people discussing American politics are not Americans?

As a U.S. citizen I was taught U.S. American history in school. Regardless if my family came here with the Pilgrims, or ten years ago (they came 125 years ago), many Americans "adopt" the history of the U.S. It becomes their history. Those who don't have that feeling of continuity of the U.S. society might be more amenable to radical solutions to problems. The proverbial "throw the baby out with the bath water." Why not? It's not their baby, so to speak. So, I like to know if I am talking to someone that has a vested interest in the U.S. Yes, that's it completely. I'd like to know if the person replying to any posts about the U.S. has a vested interest in the U.S. and its society, economy, etc. The person that could be replying to any posts, from another country, is viewing the U.S., its politics, its economy, its society, as an academic, in my opinion. No vested interest (assuming they don't have family in the U.S.).

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Ramafuchs wrote:

My country of Origin is India and I live in Germany and never polluted the soil of USA.
But I am very active to engage in discussion and thereby learn something from others.
Most of my posts here and in Abuzz is critical of American systems.
My critical views about USA and the system are vouchsafed with American views which maybe unpalatable for other Americans.
I had started this thread with a Question mark in title and that shows that I am curious to know your objective views about the views of American authors I had quoted..
Those authors speak my language and uphold my world views.
Here is one more American who calls spade a spade.

Continues

So you are tri-lingual. That's pretty cool.

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Don't walmartize yourself.
Enjoy the past and forget the commerical future.

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Quote:

If someone points out that Cheney is living off blood money, hundreds of millions made off the suffering of others, most Americans respond by wishing THEY were Cheney -- NOT by asking for a stop to the suffering and exploitation.

It just shocks me to think that you believe this. Most Americans do not respond this way. If you have a link or some other evidence to support otherwise please post it. I know many people in my community and I don't see any of this.

Quote:

Those authors speak my language and uphold my world views.
Here is one more American who calls spade a spade.

Given 300 million people, you are going to get a wide range of opinions. If you consider Cheney an opinion of the extreme right, please remember the quotes you present are extremes in other directions. That they mirror your beliefs doesn't make them correct nor imply merit to their base assumptions that Americans are greedy, thoughtless wage slaves, miserable in their existences and hungering to profit by stealing the the ill-gotten gains of others. Of course, they are entitled to their opinions, but this is not "calling a spade a spade," it's just bigotry.

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Engneer
Views are different
And there are enough soups to sip.
Unfortunately blood is aplenty but not pure water.
Am I talking your language? If yes i regret.

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Re: Engneer

Ramafuchs wrote:

Views are different
And there are enough soups to sip.
Unfortunately blood is aplenty but not pure water.
Am I talking your language? If yes i regret.

This is poetry?
Are you talking in metaphor?

Regardless, I think you are wasting your talent in a forum that should have thoughts given in a simple, direct manner.

Isn't there a poetry forum also?

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Re: Okie

Ramafuchs wrote:

"we teach no black and white right or wrong, if it feels good, do it. We are beginning to reap what we have sown as a culture, but it doesn't have much to do with whether we shop at Walmart."

It is not my intention to belittle the shoppers or the shop owners.
The authors who reflect my views are Americans.

So what if they are. In America, you will find almost any opinion you want to find, but it means very little in terms of what other people believe.

Quote:

As a Non-American I am unpopular not only here in this community forum but elsewhere as well.
I draw your kind attention to read the title of this thread with question mark.
If I had hurt your views I beg your pardon..
Thanks

Whether you are American or not doesn't matter as much as if you are a decent human being. You sound like most other people, just expressing your opinion, and almost everyone has one. Do not misinterpret disagreement with dislike, as Americans are used to debating and disagreeing.

I think I want to amend my previous post just a little, in regard to our culture falling apart. Yes, we have problems, but there are still a very large portion of the population that are decent, honest, hard working people. The media shows you a lot of bad apples, but do not report so much on the decent people that simply go to work every day and take care of their families.

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I am not here to uphold /appreciate/adore the reality.

While the missions are achieved
vissions are still there unfulfilled like DREAMS:

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Re: Okie

Foofie wrote:

And using "Old Europe" as a moniker doesn't really tell anyone to who they are replying. What does "old" Europe imply. Is there a new Europe? Are any parts of Europe older than other parts of Europe? This moniker of "Old Europe," I find sort of Eurocentric, as though the world should know what "Old Europe" implies. It's like if I, as a U.S. citizen, referred to "The Bronx," as though everyone on the forum would know it's one of the five boroughs of NYC.

Where have you been these past five years?

"Old Europe" was a term primarily used by Americans - Americans of the Rumsfeld / Cheney neoconservative variety - to ridicule the West-European countries that openly opposed the Iraq war from the start. Germany and France were implied to be the main targets, but it was generally used to tar European war opponents.

The use of "Old Europe" was intended to counter the narrative of widespread European opposition to the war with one of a divided Europe. It was just the stagnant, cowardly countries of continental West-Europe that opposed the invasion of Iraq, it was meant to convey - the "new", dynamic, brave countries of Central and Eastern Europe and Tony Blair's "modern" England favoured it.

(The use of the terms "Old Europe" and "New Europe" has since also been used by others, notably free-market ideologues and the like, to idolize the "modern, dynamic" economies of Eastern Europe with their lower wages and lack of social safety nets, and mock the "bureaucratic, old-fashioned" countries of continental Western Europe with their social welfare systems.)

In reality, of course, there never was a half/half split on Iraq: a clear majority of Europeans opposed the war, from the start, even when their governments supported it. But it was a widely used rhetorical trick in America to pretend otherwise.

Our user Old Europe here obviously took on the label with some sarcasm, as a defiant moniker ironising the Rumsfelds of this world.

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Here, Wikipedia has more info and traces back the term to a 2003 interview with Donald Rumsfeld: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe

This all reminds me: since you are so eager to find out where everybody's from, can I in turn ask you how old you are? Age after all plays a big role in the background and context of someone's views and the way he expresses them as well.

Am I right to guess that you are in your twenties at most?

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yes but some people are immune to irony, the way that the sun is immune to fire...

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nimh wrote:

Here, Wikipedia has more info and traces back the term to a 2003 interview with Donald Rumsfeld: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe

This all reminds me: since you are so eager to find out where everybody's from, can I in turn ask you how old you are? Age after all plays a big role in the background and context of someone's views and the way he expresses them as well.

Am I right to guess that you are in your twenties at most?

I believe I've already explained why it matters to know if a poster is from the U.S., or not. Only because the U.S. and its policies have been criticized in certain threads, and it matters to know if a U.S. citizen is criticizing or another country's citizen (since many times I feel I am being criticized as a U.S. citizen that has my specific opinion).

However, age, is similar to I.Q., or one's level of education. All interesting facets about an individual, but not anyone's business in my personal opinion. Notice I only want to know if a poster is a U.S. citizen, since all know that I am one. So, it's an even playing field, so to speak. I ask no other personal questions about anyone. Posters can be I.Q. morons, or geniuses, it is none of my business. The same goes with age.

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he's right, you know. i'd sooner put an average 4 year old in office than george bush, and bush is how old, 12?

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Foofie wrote:

I believe I've already explained why it matters to know if a poster is from the U.S., or not. Only because the U.S. and its policies have been criticized in certain threads, and it matters to know if a U.S. citizen is criticizing or another country's citizen (since many times I feel I am being criticized as a U.S. citizen that has my specific opinion).

Oh, absolutely. Somebody who criticises the US without being a US citizen can't really have sincere motives. Or, in the rare case he is sincere, he'll propose really radical things, because it has no ramifications for him.

I hope all the guys over on the threads where the situation in Iraq is being discussed are really Iraqis....

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Quote:

hope all the guys over on the threads where the situation in Iraq is being discussed are really Iraqis....

oh man

that would have been such a perfect answer to the rhetorical CRAP i've been hearing for years. "are you an iraqi?"

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tinygiraffe wrote:

Quote:
hope all the guys over on the threads where the situation in Iraq is being discussed are really Iraqis....

oh man that would have been such a perfect answer to the rhetorical CRAP i've been hearing for years. "are you an iraqi?"

You've made an interesting point in that those who have no vested interest in Iraq, perhaps are just having an intellectual exercise, when discussing Iraq. That's the point, if one doesn't have a vested interest in a country, then one is, possibly, just having an intellectual exercise when discussing that country. So, in the spirit of not adding apples to oranges (which is impossible to do), those who have no vested interest in a country should have a lovely discussion together, about that country. But, don't include those with a vested interest in that country, since their perceptions reflect the fact that they have a vested interest in that country. Let's add apples to apples, and oranges to oranges.

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yes, i have a vested interest in civil liberties and the lives of countless american soldiers and international civilians.

you don't, because gratitude is the end of everything for you. apparantly, sense included.

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tinygiraffe wrote:

yes, i have a vested interest in civil liberties and the lives of countless american soldiers and international civilians.

you don't, because gratitude is the end of everything for you. apparantly, sense included.

I believe you've unintentionally skewed what I stated, or confused me with an oblique paraphrase? I said vested interest in a country, not a vested interest in the world at large; we all have a vested interest in the world at large.

But, based on your last sentence above, we have differing vested interests, and therefore shouldn't engage in discussion.

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whatever foofie, it doesn't mean a plate of fetid dingo's kidneys.

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Foofie wrote:

those who have no vested interest in Iraq, perhaps are just having an intellectual exercise, when discussing Iraq. That's the point, if one doesn't have a vested interest in a country, then one is, possibly, just having an intellectual exercise when discussing that country.

You're ignoring the fact that since the US, as you've proudly confirmed yourself, is the world's superpower, we all have a vested interest in US politics. Because whatever you do, affects us all, and quite directly and heavily.

President Bush has made the world a very different place than President Gore would have, and all of us, in Europe, the Middle East, Latin America and Africa feel the consequences in various gravitating ways. So it's hardly just an "intellectual exercise" for us either.

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Wal-Martization of the American mind?

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