WAS COVERT ATTEMPT TO NUKE IRAN FOILED BY LEAK?

There are Muslims who would wish to see Jews blown apart or roasted in the fires resulting from an attack on Israel. If 'evil' has any meaning, this would be an example.

Oak Ridge would wish to see Muslims blown apart or roasted in the fires resulting from an attack on Iran. If 'evil' has any meaning, this would be an example.

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Well things are warming up a bit, or not.

America imposes sanctions and warns everybody not to deal with Iran.

Mr Putin of Russia warns Europe not to co operate with America's sanctions.

Europe gets 1/3 of its gas from Russia. The last two winters Belarus and Ukraine caught a cold because they tried to play silly games with the subsidised price of gas they get from Russia.

If it comes to a choice between conforming with American imposed sanctions on Iran, and staying warm this winter, I say stuff your sanctions Mr Bush I'm off to buy a Persian carpet. Very Happy

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From what I've gathered in my minimal reading on all of this, Russia seems to be enjoying a period of properity presently, perhaps as a consequence of high oil prices and the resulting cash flowing into their coffers.

It also seems that Putin's popularity is a consequence of that new wealth and as a consequence of him sticking his finger in Bush's/America's eye.

Interesting times, these.

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Hmm!!!!!!!! Nuke Iran? Hell, we are already spending $2.4 Trillion on our present two wars, so what is another couple of trillion.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Mr Putin of Russia warns Europe not to co operate with America's sanctions.

Putin raised the Cuban Missile Crisis.

There is an interesting aspect to that crisis that might have some use in this situation:

Quote:

JFK: It will be the policy of the United States Government to regard any missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack upon the United States by the Soviet Union, requiring a full retaliatory response.

Bush should make it clear that if Iran nukes Israel, the US will nuke Moscow and Leningrad.

(Yes, I know they renamed Leningrad to Saint something or other, but I can never remember the name -- and we can blast it into a radioactive crater no matter what they name it.)

Steve 41oo wrote:

If it comes to a choice between conforming with American imposed sanctions on Iran, and staying warm this winter, I say stuff your sanctions Mr Bush I'm off to buy a Persian carpet.

No point to sanctions.

The way forward is to bomb Iran's illegal nuclear weapons program, and to fund a massive buildup of Israel's nuclear weapons arsenal.

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Advocate wrote:

Hmm!!!!!!!! Nuke Iran? Hell, we are already spending $2.4 Trillion on our present two wars, so what is another couple of trillion.

No. Nuking Iran would be bad. Do you realize how much fallout a B61-11 causes at full yield?

Conventional bombs will do quite nicely.

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JFK was one tough cookie, all right. By a remarkable coincidence, it was not long after Russia's missile laden ships turned back that we dismantled our radar installations in Turkey.

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This may be of signaficance to thsi discussion. Ahmadinejad doesn't look that scary...but I am a liberal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQFAe0baJT8

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If they were going to bomb Iran in secret why not use the B2 stealth bomber? It would be able to get in and out again without being dectected. They could then make it look like the plant went nuke on its own. I don't know why they would use such a huge plane like the B52. While they carry alot they are not stealth!

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oralloy wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
Mr Putin of Russia warns Europe not to co operate with America's sanctions.

Putin raised the Cuban Missile Crisis.

There is an interesting aspect to that crisis that might have some use in this situation:

Quote:
JFK: It will be the policy of the United States Government to regard any missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack upon the United States by the Soviet Union, requiring a full retaliatory response.

Bush should make it clear that if Iran nukes Israel, the US will nuke Moscow and Leningrad.

(Yes, I know they renamed Leningrad to Saint something or other, but I can never remember the name -- and we can blast it into a radioactive crater no matter what they name it.)

Steve 41oo wrote:
If it comes to a choice between conforming with American imposed sanctions on Iran, and staying warm this winter, I say stuff your sanctions Mr Bush I'm off to buy a Persian carpet.

No point to sanctions.

The way forward is to bomb Iran's illegal nuclear weapons program, and to fund a massive buildup of Israel's nuclear weapons arsenal.

Iran's nuclear program is not illegal. Iran is a signatory to the npt (unlike Israel) of which they are not in breach[/b] and I challenge you to demonstrate in what way they are acting illegally. The Iranians offered unilaterally to suspend enrichment activity a couple of years back in return for talks, an offer rejected out of hand by the United States. Moreover your cavalier threats against the Russian Federation illustrates a singular lack of understanding of world affairs.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Iran's nuclear program is not illegal. Iran is a signatory to the npt (unlike Israel) of which they are not in breach[/b] and I challenge you to demonstrate in what way they are acting illegally. The Iranians offered unilaterally to suspend enrichment activity a couple of years back in return for talks, an offer rejected out of hand by the United States. Moreover your cavalier threats against the Russian Federation illustrates a singular lack of understanding of world affairs.

Well said. The question remains; why is the current US administration so unwilling to come to the table and talk diplomacy with Iran's leaders? Powell was, and he stepped aside in frustration. Rice is trying, but getting nowhere because of her superiors, rather than a lack of effort on her behalf.

Unless, of course, the invasion of Iran was penciled in as part of their pre Iraq fiasco, and that plan is the only one they wish to see reach fruition.

Iran's oil could be flowing to the US right now, but it isn't because of the pigheadedness and/or greed of the current US admin. Congress needs to ball out the bastards, and wrest control from them.

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I think what motivates the US belligerence towards Iran is exactly the same as in the case of Iraq. The US government cannot tolerate a regime in the heart of a vital strategic area which is diametrically opposed to US interests, namely

Consolidation of US power over oil resources
Elimination of a threat to Israel
Protection of the reserve currency status of the dollar.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

I think what motivates the US belligerence towards Iran is exactly the same as in the case of Iraq. The US government cannot tolerate a regime in the heart of a vital strategic area which is diametrically opposed to US interests, namely

Consolidation of US power over oil resources
Elimination of a threat to Israel
Protection of the reserve currency status of the dollar.

What Steve said.

Elegantly and concisely put. All the rest is smokescreens and mirrors.

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Baldimo wrote:

If they were going to bomb Iran in secret why not use the B2 stealth bomber?

If the US does the bombing, we will.

They are already fitting the new 30,000-pound bunker busters to the B-2 bombers.

http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=123187

Baldimo wrote:

It would be able to get in and out again without being dectected. They could then make it look like the plant went nuke on its own.

They'd know the site was bombed, and whether it was the US or Israel who did it.

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roger wrote:

JFK was one tough cookie, all right. By a remarkable coincidence, it was not long after Russia's missile laden ships turned back that we dismantled our radar installations in Turkey.

If Russia would stop helping Iran develop nuclear weapons and would derail Iran's nuclear program, they might just find we no longer see a pressing need to defend against Iranian nukes.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Iran's nuclear program is not illegal.

It is against the law for Iran to be developing nuclear weapons.

Steve 41oo wrote:

Iran is a signatory to the npt (unlike Israel) of which they are not in breach[/b]

Developing nuclear weapons is a violation of the NPT.

Steve 41oo wrote:

and I challenge you to demonstrate in what way they are acting illegally.

By trying to develop nuclear weapons.

Steve 41oo wrote:

The Iranians offered unilaterally to suspend enrichment activity a couple of years back in return for talks, an offer rejected out of hand by the United States.

Was this the before Amademajabber was elected?

Steve 41oo wrote:

Moreover your cavalier threats against the Russian Federation illustrates a singular lack of understanding of world affairs.

Nope. If Russia wants to ensure that Iran can nuke our allies, then it is perfectly reasonable for us to hold Russia responsible for what Iran does with those nukes.

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Builder wrote:

The question remains; why is the current US administration so unwilling to come to the table and talk diplomacy with Iran's leaders?

The US has been supporting European negotiations with Iran for some years.

Negotiations have continued even past the point where it was clear that Iran will never cooperate.

The time for negotiations has ended now. Now is the time to drop high explosives on people.

Builder wrote:

Iran's oil could be flowing to the US right now, but it isn't because of the pigheadedness and/or greed of the current US admin. Congress needs to ball out the bastards, and wrest control from them.

I don't think Congress is going to take Iran's side on this.

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oralloy wrote:

The time for negotiations has ended now. Now is the time to drop high explosives on people.

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oralloy wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
Iran's nuclear program is not illegal.

It is against the law for Iran to be developing nuclear weapons.

Iran says they are not developing nuclear weapons. The UN inspectors have found no evidence that they are developing nuclear weapons. The Russians say they are not helping the Iranians to develop nuclear weapons. Even the US has not directly charged Iran with developing nuclear weapons. If they had any evidence whatsoever to support such a claim they would shout it from the highest hill top. They havent. Because they have none. All they have is a suspicion that they might be. What is undoubtedly illegal is a military strike on Iran based on a suspicion, just like Iraq.

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!) Legal or moral claims made as justification for an attack on Iran will be entirely a matter of facade. Such will have the purpose of manufacturing consent for the action and/or protecting the principals (and those in the military taking part) from future prosecution.

2) Claims from the Bush administration related to intel on Iran will have almost zero credibility given what we now know of their manipulation and falsification of intel leading up to the attack on Iraq.

3) Under article X, Iran can withdraw from the NPT if they conclude that to do so is in their best interests. It is unclear what range of options the Security Council might have in response. But because of 1) above, none of this really matters.

4) Ahmadinejad holds a post more ceremonial than functionally powerful. As such, the point where he assumed the post is irrelevant as are his speeches. The mullahs hold power. Ahmadinejad role is far more important to America's propaganda efforts (personalization of any ascribed 'enemy' is a key propaganda technique).

5) Non-compliance with treaties to which a nation is a signatory is usually unfortunate for the international community. Quite aside from America's rich tradition of violation of its own internal treaties, it's violation of international treaties are numerous, including treaties on trade, human rights and torture. Israel too is has been in violation of treaties on human rights and torture to which it is signatory. And it is in violation of numerous UN resolutions.

6) our friend here who is root root rooting for bombs to fall on dirty innocent muslim women and children apparently has a boner for bombs, particularly of the radioactive sort (look up, just for fun, "oralloy" and "bockscar".

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WAS COVERT ATTEMPT TO NUKE IRAN FOILED BY LEAK?

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