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WAS COVERT ATTEMPT TO NUKE IRAN FOILED BY LEAK?

 
 
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 01:28 pm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 6,959 • Replies: 121
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 01:33 pm
and what do you think advocate yes or no?
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 01:46 pm
I would give it a 50/50. But it is very, very, frightening.

What do you think?
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 01:49 pm
Advocate wrote:
I would give it a 50/50. But it is very, very, frightening.

What do you think?
well if true very frightening especially if you are under the trajectory of a US nuclear missile.

I've been watching England beat India USA and Israel this afternoon. Should I be worried?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 06:26 pm
hi steve

No, I don't think so. I've been following this story somewhat via Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo and some other dependable investigative sorts. I'll link relevant stuff here as I come upon it.

The use of even a single tactical nuke by America will cross a threshold even these present war-lovers are too sane to cross. It would receive the rebuke of the rest of the world and it would be no normal rebuke. War crimes tribunals would be demanded even in America itself.

And, rather obviously, no other act committed by America would so certainly guarantee the concerted and long-lasting efforts of extremists to do back to America what America had done to someone else.

But I think you do need to worry that these guys might launch a conventional attack. That might seem almost wholesome in contrast to a nuke, but it will be a worse bloody disaster than even what we have now.
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TTH
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 10:35 pm
blatham
I would like to know what you think about this "mistake". Do you think it was a mistake or done on purpose?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 11:22 pm
TTH

I am simply too ignorant of the military and its protocols relevant to this story to make any sort of guess. This is the type of situation where I have to turn to the information sources I've found dependable. But as I come across good sources on this, I'll link them here.
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TTH
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 11:50 pm
blatham wrote:
TTH

I am simply too ignorant of the military and its protocols relevant to this story to make any sort of guess. This is the type of situation where I have to turn to the information sources I've found dependable. But as I come across good sources on this, I'll link them here.
Okay, thank you.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Sep, 2007 01:24 am
It doesn't look like a mistake to me. In fact, a mistake of this kind is impossible.

I await news of the investigation report with interest.

Have we got some Dr Strangeloves in the USAF?
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TTH
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Sep, 2007 01:30 am
McTag wrote:
It doesn't look like a mistake to me. In fact, a mistake of this kind is impossible.

I await news of the investigation report with interest.

Have we got some Dr Strangeloves in the USAF?
Why do you think it is impossible?
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Sep, 2007 02:18 am
As I understand it from the above article, this was not simply a matter of transporting the missiles by air. They were part of a bomb delivery system. And in any case, there is a ban on transporting fissile material by air in US airspace.
So in order for the ban to be ignored or overridden, and the plane to be so armed, it must have been a deliberate decision at fairly high level in the command structure.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Sep, 2007 06:46 am
Those involved were relieved of duty.

Maybe it got them out of going to Iraq?
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Sep, 2007 10:30 am
The neoconservatives may have decided that nukes are necessary. There have been reports that the facilities are very protected, perhaps making them immune from a nonnuke attack.

Make no mistake that there are prominent neoconservatives who are calling for an immediate attack.
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Sep, 2007 03:09 pm
TTH wrote:
McTag wrote:
It doesn't look like a mistake to me. In fact, a mistake of this kind is impossible.

I await news of the investigation report with interest.

Have we got some Dr Strangeloves in the USAF?
Why do you think it is impossible?


This is impossible because it is so inefficient. We've dropped bombs on Iraq that are nearly as powerful as low end nuclear weapons and more accurate. Why cross the nuclear threshold if you can do the same thing without doing that. I'm not even sure Israel could support the US if it dropped a nuclear weapon on a country we are not even at war with.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2007 08:57 am
Engineer, Israel would love for us to attack Iran. The latter is an implacable and deadly enemy of Israel.

Remember that Israel made a preemptive attack on Iraq after Saddam said he was building a nuke to use on Israel.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 06:54 am
hi blatham, hope you're all doing fine

This is a frightening story. I saw Farenheit 911 on Brit tv last night. A nuclear attack on Iran would be madness. But then look at some of the people who are still part of Bushco.

There is insanity around. I no longer know if its me them or the wider world.

In an article in the influential British political magazine Spectator I read today that "Iran really will be next...James Forsyth says that if Bush doesnt stop Tehran's bomb, the next President will".

Iran's nuclear industry is widely spread and some of it deep underground. Somebody somewhere may well conclude that nuclear weapons are the only device that will destroy them. The US is going to get condemned anyway.. you may as well get condemned for something you did rather than something you hope you did but cant be sure.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 07:31 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
hi blatham, hope you're all doing fine

This is a frightening story. I saw Farenheit 911 on Brit tv last night. A nuclear attack on Iran would be madness. But then look at some of the people who are still part of Bushco.

There is insanity around. I no longer know if its me them or the wider world.

In an article in the influential British political magazine Spectator I read today that "Iran really will be next...James Forsyth says that if Bush doesnt stop Tehran's bomb, the next President will".

Iran's nuclear industry is widely spread and some of it deep underground. Somebody somewhere may well conclude that nuclear weapons are the only device that will destroy them. The US is going to get condemned anyway.. you may as well get condemned for something you did rather than something you hope you did but cant be sure.


hi steve...I'm doing fine, thanks

The consequences of an administration and military in the US actually using a nuke would be more severely negative than any other act they might commit - to their personal reputations, to their potential personal legal jeopardies, to their party/ideology's prospects in the future, and to the economy. Further, other than the real fruitcakes in Israel, I believe that nation understands it would suddenly face something like a certainty of the same act perpetrated upon them.

I think it is much more likely that the deciders would purposefully leak the notion of such a step so as to, by way of contrast, make a conventional attack look reasonable. Or, that the whole set of moral prohibitions against nuke use that has been built up in our lifetimes is being put into question - purposefully - in order to facilitate significant contemporary expenditures by the US government to military/industrial elements.

I'm not familiar with Forsyth but his surmise just doesn't make sense to me. The only folks who are so extreme are really all associated with the neoconservative crowd, and that crowd's influence will not survive the next election.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 07:39 am
thanks blatham you cheered me up a bit


...not much


Sad
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 07:56 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
thanks blatham you cheered me up a bit

...not much
Sad


Then let me say a bit more.

In an interview in the recent GQ with Colin Powell, he points out that the notion the western world sits on the precipice (from Islamist extremism) is extremely silly and a fear-mongering trick. One might wish he'd voiced this earlier but it demonstrates that there are senior pentagon/government types, even if lifelong Republicans, who are aware of the extremism that marks the present powers and their rhetoric. Powell is by no means alone in this.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 08:44 am
Advocate wrote:
Engineer, Israel would love for us to attack Iran. The latter is an implacable and deadly enemy of Israel.

Remember that Israel made a preemptive attack on Iraq after Saddam said he was building a nuke to use on Israel.

But they didn't use nukes. I agree that Israel would love for us to attack Iran, but not with nukes.
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