Mid-East Roadmap, Is it working?

Apparently there will never be anything resembling real peace over there. Everyone involved is way too pig-headed.

That's an understandable reaction. But one that's realized far too much over there.

You might find this interesting and possibly enlightening.

http://www.conceptwizard.com/pipeline_of_hatred.html

Thank you for that link, Au, but the information in it is a rehash of the nonsense we often see posted here.

Unfortunately, many Jews (apparently you are one of them) have decided that any sentiment that does not express endorsement of Israel and its aims -- is anti-Semitism in some hidden form.

Well -- I GODDAM WELL am not an anti-Semite -- and when I see or hear true anti-Semitic comments from my fellow gentiles -- I speak up. I am not shy about telling people that I think anti-Semitic remarks (or anti-black; anti-Catholic; anti-whatever) are out of place.

But I am tired of Jews labeling people who have legitimate concerns about (and disagreements with) the state of Israel and the actions of the state of Israel in the Middle East -- as anti-Semites.

Grow up!

There are as many mistakes being made by Israel as are being made by their opponents over there. There are as many atrocities justified by Israel as there are atrocities justified by the Palestinians.

And hard as this may be for you to accept -- there is a compelling case to be made against the legitimacy of the state of Israel. I don't necessarily agree with all of the arguments against the state of Israel -- but there are some I think hold water.

AND I DO NOT THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO HOLD THAT ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO EXIST IS NOT SACROSANCT ARE NECESSARILY ANTI-SEMITES!

Frank
And there you have it. Israel's right to exist. That is what the conflict is over. The Arabs and their supporters do not believe that Israel has the right and will do everything they possibly can to destroy it. Israel is essentially fighting for it's life and the right of it's people to exist. Sorry I you don't recognize it. You keep proclaiming you are not an anti Semite but--. Whether you are or are not is irrelevant and I couldn't care less.
As for the link I noted it because it was relevant to the discussion..

But the thing you will not acknowledge is that there are people who DO think Israel DOES NOT have a right to exist. They DO want to eliminate the state of Israel -- and many of them DO NOT want to eliminate Jews -- just the state of Israel.

You simply want to insist that the state of Israel has a right to exist -- and nobody has a right to say it does not have that right -- and everyone who does is an anti-Semite.

Well I do think the state of Israel has a right to exist -- but I do understand the arguments of people who argue against its right to exist -- and I think anyone who claims I have to be an anti-Semite to take that position is a goddam idiot.

Some of the arguments used to justify the existence of the state of Israel really lead to very, very dangerous territory. In fact, if any other group of people used those kinds of justifications in the way the Israelis use them -- the world would be thrown into chaos.

and the world is in chaos. c.i.

Frank
Yes, there are those few, very few. If I were generous I would give a 10%
As far as anti Semitism is concerned it is alive and very much kicking The EU is fraught with it.
I should remind you that you are just looking through a window at it. However, we as Jews have lived in it's shadow and died because of it for over a thousnd years. And sadly to say at the hands of your ancestors who instigated it originally. Therefore you will have to excuse me for not putting the faith or trust in the good intentions of others. Is there a country in Europe that does not have the blood of Jews on their hands?
Sorry to get wound up particularly since the subject of the posting was not anti-Semitism. However, anti-Semitism is not something you can read about in a book to appreciate the grief and misery it has caused throughout the ages it has to be part of your peoples history.

Frank, Better watch out! I think there's a message of guilt in au's post. c.i.

C.I
Not guilt just a fact.

au, It's not the first ime I've misread/misunderstood somebody's message on A2K, and it won't be the last. ci

That just happens to be true of all of us, c.i.

I often misread/misunderstand my own posts.

dys, Some people have brought it my attention that I misread/misunderstand my own posts.

WORLD

Israel OKs raids against terror suspects

Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 3:30pm EDT

Israel decided Wednesday to carry out military strikes against terror suspects, an official said, as the Palestinians held an emergency Cabinet meeting to decide how to respond to a Hamas suicide bombing that killed 20, including five Americans.
Israeli officials chose to strike militants regardless of what the Palestinian Authority does, a security official said on condition of anonymity. The raids were expected to begin later Wednesday. A column of 13 Israeli tanks was seen lining up outside the West Bank town of Ramallah, Palestinian witnesses said.

The Palestinian Cabinet did not announce a decision after its two-hour session, except to say the rule of law in the West Bank and Gaza Strip would be enforced. The final say is up to Yasser Arafat and top PLO officials, who will meet later Wednesday with ministers.

After the Cabinet meeting, Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas received a phone call from Secretary of State Colin Powell, who said "the Palestinian Authority should take immediate measures to stop the deterioration," Palestinian Information Minister Nabil Amr said.

au, For all the military power of the US, it's useless against the bin Ladens, Saddams, Hamas, and all the other terrorist groups. American intervention will not help the Israeli Problem. We're still trying to stablize Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. The roadmap was a failure before it was instituted, because the ten percent of extremists on both sides will not let peace happen. c.i.

Here's another thought: Sooner or later, Americans are going to get fed up with all the billions spent in foreign lands while our homeland suffers from shortages and American lives coming back in body bags. Maybe not tomorrow, but not in the distant future. c.i.

Israel is moving into Nablus and Jenin--

The MSNBC article.

Not really worth a read.

I think one reason Sharon has been rather mild with his reactions to Palestinian aggression, and so compliant with the process is he is willing to accept either of the two possible outcomes: peace or a mandate for war.

I believe he's getting his mandate.

C.I.

For that we can blame our president. Not the Palestinian /Israeli conflict. It was he who got us involved in the quagmire that is called Iraq. As it was LBJ whose lies created a war in Viet Nam.

It seems Abbas made a statement to the effect that the roadmap is out the window with the latest Israeli assassination of a Hamas leader yesterday. So what else is new? c.i.