Mid-East Roadmap, Is it working?

[An aside:

while recapitulating Palestine history, I just noticed that in the Anglo-French declaration of November, 7, 1918 the term "Syria" still was being considered to include Lebanon and Palestine.]

craven

Prior to Israeli capture the heights the Syrians used it as a fire base for shelling the Israeli settlements below.

And yet people still manage to find land to use to fire shells. ISrael could take more and more land and all it would mean is that the attacks would come from the land across Israel's new expanded border.

As long as Israel is holding land that does not belong to them their attackers have what they consider a legitimate legal right to attack.

Incidentally in Israeli history making peace with the neighbours has proved to have a more pacifying effect than stealing their land.

In cases where Israel gave back the land and made peace there is rarely ever an issue of continued attacks.

"Since when is it the right thing to put yourself in jeopardy?"

What strikes me is that the Zionists didn't ask themselves that question when they commenced their arrogation of Palestine a century and a half ago.

"I think you are forgetting why Israel exists. Massacre."

So because the Ashkenazim were experiencing anti-Semitism in Europe, that justifies their arrogation of land in Asia? Real justice would have been served had the Ashkenazim fought for their rights in Europe. Justice for the Holocaust would have been a Jewish state created in Eastern Europe.

The real solution to the Israel/Palestine Conflict is not
offering the Palestinians even less land than had been proposed
by U.N. Resolution 181. It is the abandonment of a
religiously/ethnically bigoted, exclusivist state, and replacing
it with one completly integrating the Semitic brethren, both Arab
and Jew in Palestine.

A division of Israel into two states within a pan-Semitic
Palestine, one the state of Israel, the other the state of
Palestine with a central governing body open to and serving all
inhabitants thereof. Full citizenship would be given to the
subjugated people in the Occupied Territories, with certain legal
guarantees for all inhabitants, and a full unbiased
enfranchisment of the people therein.

Jews would have full Palestinian citizenship and rights, and
Palestinians would have full Israeli citizenship and rights.
Israel and Palestine would be states in a federation, and
Israelis and Palestinians would both be able to run for the prime
ministry of that federation. That federation should be based on
secular laws not religious--a path Israel has largely taken
already. There would be religious freedom, but no state
sponsored religions. The citizens would be allowed to worship
when and where they pleased as long as it doesn't infringe on
others' rights thereof.

In regard to the settlements and the right of return, integration
is the only workable solution.

Frankly,
I don't see an end to the terrorism and violence even if the "road map" were to succeed. There will always be extremists on
both sides eager to shed blood. The best that can be done is to
reduce the violence through an integrated effort.

copied from another A2K forum. I don't think jeff will mind.
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S_jeff
Just Hatched


Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1

Posted: September 11th 2003, 10:26 Post subject: Israel doesn't want the peace

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Israel doesn't want the peace. Let's take a look at the history:
• Before 1948 Palestinians was living in their lands with Pease and there were many Jewish people living in the Arab lands as well as in Europe, U.S, and the other countries.
• In 1948 some Zionist Jewish came and occupied many Palestinians lands pretending that is the land god promised them.
• In 1967 they occupied all the rest of Palestine.

Arab now are just asking to take the part Israel occupied in 1967 and they going to leave the land the Jewish took in 1948 for Israelis to live in.
So, who wants the Pease? If Israelis wants peace, they can get it by stop killing Palestinians, destroying their houses, and eradicating their plants and trees. See the following link which has pics of Israeli peace.
http://hosting.menanet.net/~hab/hab/Gallary/Peace/Peace.htm
Alan Schechner a Jewish Israeli wrote "My time in the army included the ongoing humiliation and oppression of the Palestinian population of the Occupied Territories. This was achieved by an endless list of roadblocks, document checks, public humiliations, curfews and violent suppressions of free speech. One particularly painful memory for me is the night when I, together with my unit, was ordered to break into the houses of elderly Palestinians, overturn their belongings, desecrate their peace and peace of mind for no other reason than to let them know who was boss. As part of an invading force in Lebanon, I saw first hand the evils of collective punishment. I saw whole communities destroyed because of the action of one individual, I saw a beautiful country destroyed by the megalomaniac desires of Ariel Sharon, whose already bloodstained hands are visible again in these latest troubles." For more click on the link http://genug.weblogs.com/stories/storyReader$47

Breaking: Israeli Cabinet agrees "in principle" to expell Arafat, set no timetable, IDF troops surround Arafat's compound

The US went on record to say that would not be "helpful".

Israel's own dove (Peres) also thinks this would be an unwise move.

I think it would be unmitigated stupidity or a calculated move to undermine the roadmap and prolong Israeli expantionism.

Watching.

I think Arafat's address will be changing soon.

Well, if that really happens, the addresses of some others, too

Walter, I agree.

I don't know who you refer to, Walter.
But, if you are alluding to the idea that some people may die, I agree. I have been feeling like the death of the Roadmap would be a catalyst to increased violence, and perhaps all out war.

I think the expulsion of Arafat may bring that on.

I've had the idea that the Roadmap was a turning point toward one of the two possible directions-- toward peace, or the beginning of the ultimate fighting between the two.

Reminiscent of that literate comedian, Jerry Clower. When the hunter and the cougar were stuck up in the tree, fighting and scratching--the hunter called down to his partner, "Shoot! Shoot!"

His partner said, "I can't shoot up there. I might hit you." And the hunter said, "Shoot up here amongst us. One of us got to have some relief!"

I believe the Pals and Israelis are fast getting to that point. My heart goes out to all of them. (The innocents, who have to live in that violence, anyway...)

Unfortunately they're going to end up at the same address six feet under - they be Pals or Israelis.

Well, sofia, it's exactly what c.i. wtites, that's what I wanted to say.

For some reason the top line of options is gone from my puter, so I can't bring links, cut or paste...

But, I just read on MSNBC that the Israeli cabinet has decided to expel Arafat--in the time and manner of their choosing--

8 in favor, against 2. They also say they are considering occupying Gaza, where Hamas resides.

The Palestinians are in the streets...

I do not think they will expel Arafat in the next month.

Sofia, try rightclicking the area where the buttons were and seeing if "Address bar' or "standard buttons" is unchecked.

What makes you think they'll wait?

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(Thanks. I had tried that, and it just says restore, close, minimize. Its 3AM here. My son can fix it (hopefully) tomorrow. I tried my settings, too. That's about the limit of my understanding of this crazy, glowing box.)

A-HA! I did it! I went in through my control panel, and back to A2K, only now my screen looks like I'm looking out through a funky blue dashboard. (I screwed around with my settings.)

But, all good.

I think that they realize that there is probably not a nation on earth that thinks it is a good idea.

Not that it matters to themso much as the fact that the Us government does not think it's a good idea.

If it happens I think it will be when the US public supports the idea to a degree that the administration would not be able to put much pressure on Israel.

I'd like to expound on my prediction. With US diplomats on the way to pressure Israel there is some mumbling about building a prison around Arafat instead of exiling him.

What many fail to realize is that exiling Arafat might not be an option. He might be killed and that would be even harder on Israeli PR.

The US is still against the move and IMO the only way we will see Arafat exiled is immediately after a terrorist attack. If there is an attack with more than 10 casualties I believe Israel might make the attempt within the 48 hour window of the aftermath.