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Mid-East Roadmap, Is it working?

 
 
au1929
 
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 07:29 am
The roadmap in the middle east. {Israeali/Palestinian} has been agreed upon by the parties. To date has it been effective? Are the parties adhering to the agreement? Will it in the long run lead to peace? Or is it just the calm before the resumption of the storm? Will the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, be able to control the militants? And last but not least what are the factors that work against and for a lasting peace between the two parties?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 11,897 • Replies: 258
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2003 09:13 am
Stuck on a Barrier That's Not on the Road Map
By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, August 8, 2003; Page A17 The State Department is proposing that the United States play hardball with Israel -- reducing badly needed loan guarantees -- if it proceeds with the barrier it is erecting between Israeli and Palestinian populations. With this, the State Department joins the latest Palestinian propaganda ploy -- inverting cause and effect, and making the fence the issue, rather than the terrorism that made the fence necessary.
The Israelis are not happy with the fence. They love the land as much as the Palestinians, and scarring it with any barrier is so painful to Israelis that for years they resisted the idea. The reason they finally decided to build it is that they could no longer in good conscience refrain from taking the one step that could prevent Palestinian suicide bombers from sneaking into Israel to blow up innocents.
This is not speculation. There have been nearly 100 Palestinian suicide bombings. All the terrorists came from the West Bank, where the barrier is being built. Not a single one has come from Gaza. Why? Because there already is a fence separating Gaza from Israel.
"The fence would not even be a factor if it were not for the violence in the last few years," writes former chief U.S. Middle East negotiator Dennis Ross. "Truth be told, those responsible for the fence are Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades."
In America, we build stretches of fence along the Mexican border to prevent foreigners from coming in to take jobs. It takes a lot of audacity to demand that Israel stop building a fence whose purpose is to prevent foreigners from coming in to commit mass murder.
As part of the propaganda campaign against the barrier, it has been called a wall. In fact, it is a fence, with electronics on either side to prevent infiltrators. It is wall-like for only about a tenth of its length -- in just two places, both along the Trans-Israel Highway. Why? Because Palestinian gunmen had been shooting from Palestinian territory onto the highway and killing innocent Israelis.
In America, barrier walls are built along highways to keep neighbors from being inconvenienced by the noise. In Israel, barrier walls are built along highways to prevent passengers from being killed by bullets. Yet the State Department wants to punish Israel with sanctions for building a defensive barrier designed to prevent motorists from being shot while traveling inside Israel itself.
What is scandalous about the State Department's joining this Palestinian propaganda campaign is that the department has for months been campaigning to implement its "road map" for peace, published on April 30. It has three phases. We are now in Phase I.
In which phase is Israel supposed to stop work on the fence? In none. There is nothing in the road map about the fence. In any phase.
In Phase I Israel is supposed to dismantle settlement outposts, which it has begun doing. Ultimately, Israel is required to freeze old settlements, which it is prepared to do when the Palestinians fulfill their part of Phase I. And what is that?
The road map is explicit: The Palestinians must begin "sustained, targeted, and effective operations aimed at . . . dismantlement of terrorist capabilities and infrastructure." They have done none of this. None. A three-month truce has been declared. But Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas has not just delayed cracking down on the terrorist apparatus; he has said that he will not do so at all because of fear of a Palestinian civil war.
How has the State Department reacted to this open reneging on the Palestinians' central obligation in Phase I? At first it said it would simply give Abbas a short time to begin dismantling the terrorist infrastructure. Now it appears quite satisfied with a temporary truce that allows Hamas and the other terrorists to rearm and regroup, and that can and will be broken at the time and place of their choosing.
This is a direct contradiction of the road map. It is a contradiction of the central requirement of Palestinian compliance. It is a contradiction of the Middle East policy announced by President Bush in his June 24, 2002, speech that promised the Palestinians their own independent state -- but only if they first ceased the violence and dismantled the violence machine.
The State Department is ignoring, indeed excusing, Palestinians' violation of their central obligation under Phase I of the road map. At the very same time, the State Department is threatening Israel with sanctions over a fence that is nowhere mentioned in the road map.
This kind of amnesia and one-sidedness is not new. We have been here before. It was called Oslo. And we know how it ended.
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2003 03:26 pm
It seems to me that it cannot work. It recognizes the Palestinians' right to have their own state, but it gives them no chance to establish it instead of Israel, only by side of it. Even if Dahlan and Abu Mazen are ready to compromise, they have to take into account the feelings of their compatriots. Ironically, after the destruction of Arafat's dictatorship by IDF, PA became the most democratic of all the Arab countries (in some aspects, it is more democratic than any of the Western countries, since the authorities lost any means to influence the people's opinion and to manipulate it), and any politician there has to take into account the public opinion. And the latter is extremely anti-Israeli for reasons having nothing to do with settlements and borders (those are excuses the Palestinian leaders and activist use to shape the Western public opinion): Arabs do not want a Western-type country to exist in the Middle East.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2003 04:47 pm
How can the roadmap have any chance to work when Delay was in Israel last week attempting to undermine it, and several other congresspeople are there this week on an AIPAC sponsored trip, also meant to undermine the peace process?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 07:04 am
hobitbob
I will ask you how can the roadmap hope to work when the Palestinians continue to target civilians. Shooting at autos on the road and lobbing shells into Isreal. What have the Palestinians done to follow the road map. To date not a thing the terrorists still rule the roost. The PA is only a figure head and the power still rests in the hands of Arafat and the terrorist organizations.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 07:11 am
Well, at first, after a historic meeting with Abbas, on July 25, President George W. Bush referred to Israel's separation wall - dashing through the West Bank - as a "problem."
But only a few days later, the momentous shift seemed nothing more than a wrong choice of words. President Bush, standing by a smiling Israeli Prime Minister told reporters he understood the "fence" was a "sensitive issue" to Israel, and merely committed to ensure that the "fence sends the right signals."

However, since I lived in country, seperated for nearly 30 years by a wall and lots of fences, I sincerely believe, the roadmap will work - unfortunately only after years and killed citizens on all sites.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 07:20 am
War Continues for Gush Katif Residents
11:40 Aug. 10, '03 / 12 Av 5763
Compliance to the roadmap Palestinian style

While PA and Israeli officials talk of the hudna and whether it is effective or not, the residents of Gush Katif continue to live in warlike conditions. Palestinian terrorists in Gaza fired a new missile at the community of Morag last night, in southern Gush Katif, causing injuries.


The rocket, named Al-Batar, is a new product of weapons factories in the Palestinian Authority, and has a range of three kilometers. Six Israelis went into shock when it was fired at them last night, and their hearing was slightly affected as well. The missile exploded near a home in Morag, causing damage to nearby parked cars and shattering windows in adjacent homes.

Suicide Attack Thwarted
17:47 Aug. 07, '03 / 9 Av 5763


The IDF had recently given Abu Sharah's name to the PA security forces, but they did not arrest him. PA leaders Abu Mazen and Muhammed Dahlan have said that they do not plan to take action against the terror organizations in their midst.

The Jerusalem Police arrested ten Arab youths last night, on suspicion of vandalizing and desecrating gravesites at the ancient Jewish cemetery on Mt. of Olives. They are alleged to have smashed gravestones, scrawled anti-Jewish graffiti and defecated on the stones, and stolen ornaments from the graves throughout the past year. More arrests are expected.

This past week, IDF forces arrested a total of 72 wanted Arabs of the Palestinian Authority. Three explosive devices were detonated towards IDF forces during this period, and 22 instances of terrorist gunfire were reported. In the most serious incident, a woman and her three children were wounded in a terrorist shooting attack on the Har Gilo-Jerusalem Highway.

The IDF reported on Monday that since the onset of the "hudna" ceasefire five weeks earlier, there were no fewer than 195 terrorist attacks in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, claiming the lives of four Israelis and wounding 22.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 07:48 am
Well, I know how to copy and paste as well.

From CounterPunch:
Quote:

August 9, 2003

Empire of the Settlements
A Home of Our Own
By ROB ESHELMAN

The ten-agorot coin has a map on it. Take a close look though and the map is not of Israel contained within its 1967 boarders. It is a map of a nation extending from the Nile River in the east to the Euphrates River in the west. This is "Eretz Yisrael" which includes all of Jordan and parts of Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Along the left curve of the coin the word "Israel" appears in Hebrew, Arabic, and English.

I'm told that sometimes when an Israeli home or road is being constructed these coins are dropped in the ground. Thus, the coin is both a reminder during every economic exchange of a people's "homeland", and insurance that future generations will know whose land we are standing on.



* * *

Dror Etkes is the coordinator for the Settlement Watch program of the left-Zionist organization Peace Now. Founded by Israeli Defense Force soldiers in 1978, Peace Now leads tours for journalists of settlement outposts in the West Bank. According to Dror the goal of these tours, "is to close the gap between what the government says and what is actually happening."

On a bright, warm Saturday morning in Jerusalem, I meet Dror and a hand-full of other international journalists in a parking lot behind a 24-hour gas station to tour two settlement outposts in the West Bank, north of Ramallah.

Route 60 is the major North-South highway connecting the West Bank cities of Ramallah, Nablus, and Jenin. Along a section of Route 60, called the Ramallah by-pass road, most settlement construction took place from the late 1970s to the mid 1980s.

According to Peace Now, 230,000 Israelis are currently living in the occupied territories in 145 settlements. Some Palestinian organizations put the figure at closer to half a million by including areas, such as around Jerusalem, annexed by Israel following the 1967 war. 60% of these settlements have been built since Ariel Sharon was elected Prime Minister in February 2001.

The huge number of Israeli settlers alarms many Israeli organizations and is viewed as an incitement to many Palestinians. The Yesha Council, an organization spearheading the return of Jews to their historic homeland in "Eretz Yisrael", however, views this number with emphatic pride, proclaiming on its website that, "in the near twenty five years since the establishment of the Yesha Council, the population of Yesha (Hebrew acronym for Judea, Samaria and Gaza) has grown from less than 3,000 to nearly 225,000 and the number continues to grow annually."

Just north of Jerusalem along Route 60, our caravan of four vehicles passes the settlement of Migron. The largest post-2001 outpost within the West Bank, Migron is home to 35 families. Little more than a few boxy trailer homes, it started in 1998 with a cell phone antenna. However, as Dror is quick to point out, many outposts begin as seemingly benign utility infrastructure projects. "If you have an antenna, you need a guard to protect the antenna." Inevitably, settlers follow and the Israeli conquest of the West Bank has a new base.

Israel has constructed a massive1200 kilometer road system connecting these settlements within the West Bank. "Pre-Intifada, the occupation was more sophisticated," Dror tells me while driving the lead van in our caravan. "This was the settlement and bypass road construction phase. Now it's more militarized."

Settlement roads serve a duel purpose. Built primarily during the 1990s, they allow settlers to commute in and out of the West Bank without having to encounter Palestinian villages or cities. They also encircle and isolate Palestinians from land which they've worked for generations, creating Bantustans--cantons similar to the South African government's establishment of limited self-rule in some villages for blacks.

As we turn off of Route 60 about 35 kilometers north of Jerusalem, Dror says that despite leading these tours many times, you never quite know what to expect when trying to gain entry into a Jewish settlement. The young private security guard who greets us at the small guard post just off the highway cuts to the chase pretty quickly, though. "Are there any Arabs with you", he asks matter-of-factly. When we assure him that there are in fact no Arabs with us, we gain entry to Eli, home to 3000 Israeli settlers and the location of a settlement outpost spotted just two days ago.

Dror found the new outpost, which lies just south of Eli, flying over the West Bank in a small Cessna aircraft. Periodically Dror and other staff from Peace Now fly over areas of the occupied territories combing the hilltops for the establishment of new settlement outposts.

Our caravan makes its ascent to the new outpost on a barely traversable road cut into the side of a few rolling hills. Driving along this rocky and deeply rutted path, I get the feeling that the road may slide off the side of the hill at any moment. Through the thick clouds of dust which billow out from beneath our vehicles, I spot two private security trucks shadowing us not far behind.

Finally making it to the top of the hill we spot two structures. The first is nothing more than a neglected shipping container. Mostly rusted, its large metal doors sit open, exposing the container's dark internal void. The other structure, a mobile-style home, looks as though if it had a spine it would be broken. Twisted and dilapidated, the uninhabited rectangle looks more like it has been abandoned rather than waiting to be someone's home.

This outpost could be a "dummy". For negotiating purposes, some settlers establish "dummy" or uninhabited outposts, which they will allow to be dismantled so that inhabited outposts, remain intact. This is a cleaver negotiating strategy based on knowledge that the Israeli government will make little effort to evict settlers in the West Bank.

On a hilltop overlooking our location the passengers of the two security trucks peer at us through binoculars.

Across the valley from Eli is Haroe, a settlement established one-year ago. Since that time, there hasn't been anyone living here, but soon that is clearly going to change. A small group of workers is constructing the foundations for what appears to be at least ten homes. A poll-digging machine sits idle by the side of the road leading into the burgeoning settlement. Newly installed power lines make the important connection to the Israeli power grid. This is not a "dummy" and is hardly the scene of Israeli efforts to comply with international agreements requiring the dismantlement of post-2001 outposts.

Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states that an occupying power "shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies." Israel ratified the document in 1951. Also, the current roadmap, authored by the United States, Russia, the European Union, and the United Nations, requires that the government of Israel "immediately dismantles settlement outposts erected since March 2001." There has been no let up, however, in Israeli government support for construction activity in the West Bank and Gaza as new settlements continuing to appear.

Israel however is not merely turning a blind eye to this construction. In fact, Dror characterizes Israeli government support for settlement activity as "massive". Support comes in the form of mortgage subsidies for home purchases and private enterprise construction. Social workers and teachers are given benefit packages more comprehensive than their peers who live in Israel. The most substantial example of Israeli support for settlement activity may be the 5% income tax reduction for Israelis who settle in the West Bank. "The West Bank is the only place where Israelis have a welfare state," says Dror.

On our return trip to Jerusalem we bounce along more rough roads--a settlement to our left, a small military base to our right. I ask Dror what he makes of the highly publicized dismantlement of a few outposts following the Aqaba meeting attended by Ariel Sharon, Abu Mazen, George Bush, and King Abdullah of Jordan. He views the dismantlement of these outposts as "a mockery". He says, "It is meant to deceive the Israeli public by making it appear something is happening when it's not."

Gideon Levy, in an editorial in the August 4th edition of Haaretz, commented that the "small measures" taken recently by the Israeli government "were not aimed at the Palestinians". They were taken, "to curry favor with the president (Bush). The point was not to make conditions easier for the Palestinians, but to facilitate the conditions for Sharon's meeting with Bush."


* * *

The fallacy of Israeli efforts to achieve comprehensive peace with the Palestinian population and the ideological support that exists within the highest levels of the Israeli government for continued settlement activity became even more apparent a few days after our tour. The Israeli Defense Forces announced that additional settlement outposts were to be dismantled.

On August 4th, residents of Beit El East began to dismantle their small outpost. The caravans however were moved only a short distance away to join 20 other caravans previously in place at an outpost on Mount Artis. The broker of the deal to dismantle Beit El East according to Haaretz was, "MK Uri Ariel (National Union Party), the former secretary general of Yesha Council of Jewish settlements and head of the Beit El local council."

Rob Eshelman is a freelance journalist based in Palestine.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 11:17 am
au1929 wrote:
hobitbob
I will ask you how can the roadmap hope to work when the Palestinians continue to target civilians. Shooting at autos on the road and lobbing shells into Isreal. What have the Palestinians done to follow the road map. To date not a thing the terrorists still rule the roost. The PA is only a figure head and the power still rests in the hands of Arafat and the terrorist organizations.

The Palestinians aren't the only ones who target civiliians. The Israelis are not blameless. They demolish homes, kill entire families in their attempts to "surgically remove" individuals, and generally act like bulls in a china shop. Whilst I do not condone the acts of the Palestinian terrorists, I can understand that theya re fighting back the only way possible. That the US continues to suppport Israel's thuggish tactics is abomniable!
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 11:33 am
An example of Israel's efforts at obtaimimg peace:

Israeli Airstrike Kills 16 Y. O., Wounds Others.

JERUSALEM - Israeli warplanes bombed suspected Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon on Sunday hours after the militant group shelled northern Israel, killing a teenage boy....
... The Lebanese officials said warplanes fired at least one missile on an area near the village of Teir Harfa, about two miles from the Lebanese-Israeli border. There was no immediate word on casualties, said the officials, speaking on customary condition of anonymity.

The Israeli military said fighter planes hit Hezbollah artillery positions in southern Lebanon that were responsible for shelling the northern Israeli town of Shlomi earlier Sunday.

A 16-year-old boy was killed and four adults were lightly wounded by shrapnel, a spokesman for the hospital in nearby Nahariya said.


Neither side seems to have any desire to end the violence, and the actions of Israel are as much "terrorism" as the acts of the Palestinians.
0 Replies
 
steissd
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 11:58 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:

However, since I lived in country, seperated for nearly 30 years by a wall and lots of fences, I sincerely believe, the roadmap will work - unfortunately only after years and killed citizens on all sites.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 12:07 pm
steissd wrote:
Mr. Hinteler, GDR did not launch terrorists against the FRG civilians and vice versa. The situation in the Middle East differs.


I agree that the situation on the Near East is different.

I don't agree with the first part of the above quoted response.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 12:07 pm
That's an interesting point, steissD. Several of my close friends are from Israel and do not look European. They look as middle-eastern as any of my Muslim friends. It's been on my mind on the subway recently. Looking at some men - trying to figure out if they're Arab or Israeli.

Also - sometimes I'm watching the news and realize that if I didn't know the uniforms, I wouldn't know who was who in many cases.

It can't be as simple as Arabs hating European-looking people.



Things in Germany aren't that great. I still hear complaints from both sides - I don't know about battles, but I sure hear complaining. And thats from people who wanted to be together.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 01:49 pm
hobitbob
The Hezbollah has constantly been lobbing shells into Israel from Lebanon. Up until now they have only caused damage and there had been few casualties. With the killing of a teenager however, the time for restraint is over. Just think of what Bush would have done if faced with the same situation. Retaliation and defense is not terrorism.
I am sure I do not have to remind you that Lebanon is not the PA and is in reality just a vassal of Syria. I do not believe that they are not party to the road map.
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 02:47 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Also - sometimes I'm watching the news and realize that if I didn't know the uniforms, I wouldn't know who was who in many cases.
Do you mean that such well-known Israeli current and former leaders as Messrs. Sharon, Netanyahu, Rabin, Perez, Begin, Shamir, Barak etc. do not have a typical European appearance? Well, more than 50 percent of Israelis are of European origin, and if you meet some of them in the streets of Eastern or Central European city, you will unable to distinguish them from the local population. And it happens that the European Israelis constitute the local political and business elite. This causes the particular anger of the Palestinian nationalists.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 02:50 pm
You might wish to re-read the article. It was the Israelis who killed the 16y.o. Lebanese boy. The Israelis don't seem very concerned about who gets killed when they use military force against civilian targets. Remember Rachel Corrie? And the response to the State Dept "investigation" of her death? It was "regrettable." It would seem that the Israeli military is the ultimate in hit squads...they can kill whomever and get away with it. The US will even pat them on the back for doing so. Mad
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 02:52 pm
au1929 wrote:
Retaliation and defense is not terrorism.

Especially if you are on the side being financed by the US. Rolling Eyes
Tell that to the innocents killed by the IDF each year.
0 Replies
 
steissd
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 02:56 pm
Israelis are outside Lebanon. IDF unilaterally retreated in May 2000. Hizballah does not have the excuse of fighting against the foreign occupation, since the latter does not exist any more. Nevertheless, they launch missiles against the IAF warplanes that perform training flights in the Israeli aerial space, and these missiles fall on the Israeli towns near the border.
Age of the boy does not make him less probable to be a terrorist. While fighting in Afghanistan in the ranks of the Soviet Army in 1982-86, I came across with the younger armed terrorists.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 02:58 pm
hobitbob
Right you are. I missread. That however makes it no less tragic or the responsibility of the Hezbollah. Since they are the ultimate instigators.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2003 03:18 pm
steissd

You frequently refer to ages of killed children and your experience in Afghanistan.

Do you suggest to kill any person about the age of 4 of the surrounding states of Israel, whlie you came across young terrorists?
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