Mame- I can't count the nogoods who have populated the media for the last few years. The next question is whether this stuff has always been going on, but now the media, the internet and blogs jump on anything and everything.
I think back to the sexual escapades of Presidents Kennedy and Clinton. In Kennedy's day, things were whispered about, but the media did not print the kind of stuff that they did about Clinton.
Normally Cyclops, I'd agree with you. Reading something that your lawyers wrote up for you wouldn't impress me either. But it was widely reported that Michael Vick did not read from a prepared statement. And when I watched it, it sure didn't look like he was reading.
I've just got my fingers crossed that he can rise above this and become a better man because of it.
eoe wrote:Normally Cyclops, I'd agree with you. Reading something that your lawyers wrote up for you wouldn't impress me either. But it was widely reported that Michael Vick did not read from a prepared statement. And when I watched it, it sure didn't look like he was reading.
I've just got my fingers crossed that he can rise above this and become a better man because of it.
He may not have been reading from a prepared statement, but very likely he was coached. You don't do a 180 that quickly. Eight dogs, remember. Eight.
Phoenix32890 wrote:Mame- I can't count the nogoods who have populated the media for the last few years. The next question is whether this stuff has always been going on, but now the media, the internet and blogs jump on anything and everything.
I think back to the sexual escapades of Presidents Kennedy and Clinton. In Kennedy's day, things were whispered about, but the media did not print the kind of stuff that they did about Clinton.
I think it has always been going on, it's just more publicized today what with the papparazzi and Freedom of Information acts and general lack of privacy. Celebs and rich people are no longer protected from DUIs and other crimes just because they're famous. It's all news, isn't it? We're living in very sad times if these are the people we look up to.
Mame- Something comes to mind. If a person, like a sports or movie star has earned his fortune due to the loyalty of fans, does he have any responsibility for being a role model to those fans, especially when many of those fans are kids? Or is that too much to ask of a mere mortal?
I don't think he has any obligation to his fans, no. If so, where does it end? He made his money playing ball really well. Fans are a part of that package because they watch the games. He can't choose his fans.
We're a mobile society. Many of us live far from family and don't really know our neighbors.
Celebrity sins act as a bonding experience for the American Public. No one here on A2K knows about my family skeletons--but people like Craig and Vick provide us with juicy, raw bones we can gnaw all together. Some of us are satisfied with the visible meat and others will shatter the bones and suck out the marrow in an effort to understand.
****
Odd phenomena. I'm an agnostic, albeit an agnostic who was thoroughly exposed to the King James Bible as Literature.
The more I think of Craig, the more I link his behavior with the phrases, "a stench in the nostrils of the righteous" and "whited sepulcher".
Yes, a politician is elected by the people for the people and his morality is an issue for all to observe, as it should be.
A football player is a completely different kettle of fish; his morality is not connected to his job.
I think it's time they draw the line on that too, where a multi-million dollar sports stars' conduct off the field has no bearing. I am sick of seeing these clowns claim that they have no responsibility to their fans. I know it's not fair, some would say that it isn't just but I, for one, have reached my point with it. These sports figures sign contracts where they're paid gazillions of dollars in product endorsements by a Nike or an Addidas and you'd better believe that there are all kinds of morality clauses included so yes, IMO, they do have a responsibility to at least uphold the contracts they sign and in turn, not get caught up in funky **** like this.
I heard that Vick may have to repay upwards of 20 million to either the Falcons or one of his product endorsements. And I hope they make that stick.
If there are morality clauses, then it's up to the company to take him to task. But let's just say he hasn't signed any deals and is just playing ball and there's no morality clause in his playing contract. Does he then have an obligation to his fans to behave in a certain way?
Mame--
I think sports figures are bound by a modern update of "Live by the sword, die by the sword".
Thousands of parents--even hundreds of thousands of parents--buy their kids the overpriced tennis shoes they want. One of the reasons that the kids want the over-priced sneakers is because of the sports figures endorsing them.
If you are making money from your reputation, you're smart to keep that reputation squeaky-clean and marketable.
An "obligation to the fans" can't be enforced in the same way that a written contract can be enforced--hence the old fashioned rhetoric of "a stench in the nostrils of the righteous--but fans can vote with their pocketbooks and stay home from the games.
True enough, Noddy, but I thought we were talking about his obligations to his fans.
Are you agreeing that he doesn't have any and that the fans will decide to boycott his games if they don't like his behaviour?
Mame--
Remember, I'm old fashioned.
I think Sports Figures (like anyone else) have obligations to be honorable people--not so much for their fans, but for their own self-respect.
A man who makes money selling merchandise to children should conduct himself in a way that children will look up to him--and this is part of his self-respect.
Well, I agree that's how it should be and used to be, but we're living in different times. Sad to say.
Mame--
Every so often I dream of myself as a Super Heroine, armed with a black umbrella and a 6-foot bullwhip moving through the world redressing wrong and punishing those who offend me.
Noddy,
You have just described my worst nightmare.
I want to speak as a human being.
I have done lots of things that are stupid, a couple of things that I am ashamed of, maybe a couple of things I could have been arrested for, and possibly even things that would offend Noddy.
These two men are public figures... and it is good to keep in mind that a public persona is not a real person. But there are real human beings behind these public figures. My particular vices don't include either dog fighting, or soliciting sex in a men's room. But in a small way I can relate to personal failings-- and the idea of facing my personal failings so publicly is very frightening indeed.
There is no way to know what either of these men are thinking in their private minds... I hope that Michael Vick's statement has a little bit of the truth.
For me, Redemption -- the ability to make something of life in spite of personal failings, is a very important part of the human story.
I happen to think that Michael Vick's response to this story is the best possible. Whether this is sincere, or just a staged attempt to win a future chance is impossible to know. Perhaps, since public life is more about entertainment than reality, whether this is real doesn't even matter.
Don't you think that a public figure, who after falling in a very painful and public way, changes and comes back to have a worthy and successful career is a good message for kids?
Teaching kids that public figures are without fault might not be the best message.
Humans have faults... sometimes serious ones. It is how we work through them that counts.
I was going to bring up the word 'HONOR' but I guess ol' Webster ought to just scratch that stuffy and old-fashioned word from the dictionary. It no longer applies to anything anywhere anymore.
EhBrown--
I feel that Act II should always be as powerful as Act I.
Damn fools can choose to stay damn fools--or they can try to become the best they can be.
I have no patience with wilful fools, but a great deal of sympathy with striving fools.
