Pro-'surge' group is almost all Jewish

Many observers would come to the same conclusion; however, the vast majority of Jews in the U.S. are concentrated in the main urban/suburban areas. Yes, their votes count there, but for not that many representatives. How would the large aid package to Israel get passed with comparatively few representatives motivated by the votes "back home"?

If you haven't noticed, the U.S.A. needs all the friends it can get, world opinion being what it is. Their staunchest ally is the UK; that's a given. After that come all the Commonwealth countries: Australia, Canada, etc.; Israel is an ally in many voting scenarios in the U.N.

Israel also is a value to western nations, in an indirect manner I believe, since if a consumer of Middle East oil takes a pro-Palestinian stance at the U.N., that can be of value when shopping in the world oil market. I know that belief is not part of the popular culture.

And, as I mentioned earlier, the largest contingent of pro-Israel Americans is not the U.S. Jewish population (five million), but the Evangelical Christian population (40 - 60 million; the growth coming from many Hispanics converting from Catholicism).

If you're not aware, that last chapter in the New Testament, "Revelations," seems to be all about the future of humanity, with Israel playing some integral role, especially for the Second Coming. So, while many people would react with, "Don't be silly, only Jews are so pro-Israel," the U.S. is really not a knock-off of much of the rest of the world's attitudes. The version of Protestant Christianity that many Americans subscribe to is its own brand; it possibly harkens back to the early Pilgrims fleeing their own persecution in Europe; they identify with the concept of Zion (America was/is their Zion). While there are no Pilgrims around today, their stamp is on the U.S. (i.e., hard working Calvinism) in a number of ways. So, today, when one says upper class WASP, one is oftentimes talking about a descendant of early Protestant settlers that came to the U.S. believing the U.S. was their Zion.

So, those representatives that might be voting for a large aid package to Israel has Evangelical Christian votes back home to be concerned about. And, telling the voters back home, in many a Bible Belt state, that he/she voted for an aid package to Israel is a good way to get re-elected. Yep, the U.S. is not just Europe on the other side of the Atlantic.

Lastly, Middle East politics is very complicated, since the Arab nations have their political divisions. A strong Israel prevents any Arab nation from attempting to gain hegemony over another Arab nation, since they must first focus on Israel. As long as Israel is a perceived threat, no Arab nation is likely to try to become the "toughest kid in the neighborhood," they must direct their energies towards Israel. In fact, I believe, Israel's existence is welcomed surreptitiously by some leaders in the region.

But, don't believe me. Enjoy the nice weather.

I read recently in The Americans that American Jews supported the creation of the Israeli state to avoid the Jews living in some fear from decamping to the US. American Jews were said to be the prime movers in creating the state of Israel for that reason when they saw the risks to themselves if the European Jews all went to the US. Obviously such a policy will be permanent. If Israel collapsed one supposes that the US will take the population of the country into its protection.

I have no idea if all that is true but it sounds plausible at least. And this thread subject adds to the plausibility.

But it was a Republican administration that pulled the rug on the British/French/Israel policy in 1956 which some people think is the cause of all the strife since. Admirers of Sir Anthony Eden would take such a view.

Cycloptichorn: Stunned silence...They don't need it? Preposterous!

This alliance and exchange of aid, technologies and intelligence is invaluable to the US and Israel! Two-way street benefits both sides regardless of critics and detractors.

Really?

Name some technology or aid that they have given us lately.

On the other hand, we spend billions in direct aid and billions more in military aid. Their benefit is quite tangible, ours, not so much.

Why is it, that we give Israel vastly more support then any other country? You would think that we would be able to point to more concrete reasons for giving such huge amounts of aid then just platitudes such as you have posted.

Cycloptichorn

on edit: so, would we not be allies if we stopped giving them the money? If they are allies with us, and support our causes and continued existence, it should be independent of any financial obligation on our part.

Truthfully, Israel is a fully-developed economy with the fourth largest military in the world. They have a plethora of nuclear weapons (completely outside of international agreements, I might add - I've never been able to establish a good reason for why they are exempt from those) and are completely and totally capable of defending themselves without any further assistance from us. Yet, the money keeps flowing. Why?

The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the
Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in
Israel.

Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by
Microsoft-Israel.

The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both
the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely
designed, developed and produced in Israel.

The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in
Israel.

Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the
US in Israel.

The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in
1996 by four young Israelis.

Israel has the fourth largest air force in the world (after the U.S.,
Russia and China). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft,
Israel's air force has an aerial arsenal of over 250

F-16's. This is the largest fleet of F-16 aircraft outside of the U.
S. Israel 's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate
neighbors combined .

Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per
capita.

According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline
industry's most impenetrable flight security. U.S. officials now look
(finally) to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security
threats.

Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population
in the world.

Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any ither
nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people --as well as one of
the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of
startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the
largest number of startup companies than any other country in the
world, except the U.S. (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

On a per capita basis, Israel has the largestnumber of biotech
startups.

With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups,! Israel has
the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world -- apart
from the Silicon Valley, U.S.

Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right
behind the U.S. Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the
largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.

Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East.

The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the
U.K.

Twenty-four per cent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees,
ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States
and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.

Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews
(Operation Solomon) at Risk in Ethiopia, to safety in Israel.

When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she
became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.

When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli
rescue teams were on the scene within a day -- and saved three
victims from the rubble.

Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship -- and the
highest rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.

Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing
nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious
freedom, and economic opportunity. (Hundreds of thousands from the
former Soviet Union)

Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly
process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict
free."

Israel has the world's second highest per capita of new books.

Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century
with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because
this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.

Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.

Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized,
no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring
proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from
medical treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die
from treatment mistakes.

Israel's Given Imaging developed the first ingestible video camera,
so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from
the inside, cancer and digestive disorders .

Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the
heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives
among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with
the camera helps doctors diagnose heart's mechanical operations
through a sophisticated system of sensors.

Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in
the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U.S.,
over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its
workforce employed in technical professions, Israel places first in
this category as well.

A new acne treatment developed in Israel -- the Clear Light device
produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band blue
light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct -- all without
damaging surrounding skin or tissue.

An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale
solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in
southern California's Mojave desert.

All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy
that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain
by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any
other county on earth.

Please, keep your cut-and-paste emails, without attribution or sourcing, to yourself. If you can't say what you want in your own terms, don't say it.

Cycloptichorn

Thanks for showing your true colors by not addressing the text and subverting. Is there anything in that thread that I typed that is in error? At some point in the near future, I'll post the source of those facts. Having worked for Motorola, I can personally attest for the info on the technology.

When you can't acknowledge the contributions of Israel or accept important alliance Israel and US have, feel free to swing away with ad hominem attack (or better defined as ad hominem circumstantial) if it makes you feel better.

Re-edited post:
http://www.israelemb.org/la/media/ALetterFromYariv/L9.htm

This info came by way of the Consul General in Los Angles dated May 12, 2005.

FWIW, the text in its entirety with 57 internationally known accomplishments is there in the link.

Cyclo didn't address my text either.

I'm sure there's a reason the U.S. continues to give Israel monetary aid; however, whatever the reason, it's not because the American Jewish community is requesting it. The people that run the U.S. don't pander to the American Jewish community, even though many people believe that is so. There is a business or political reason. Since Israel is so innovative in new technology, perhaps the U.S. business community wants Israel to consider the U.S. a friend, for purposes of sharing new technology?

Sort of like the Salk vaccine (and the Sabin one too) was given to the world to cure polio. I bet few knew they were both Jews (Salk practiced Humanism, per a Wikipedia article).

Regardless, there's always the possibility that the aid is meant for Israeli children's "milk and cookies" after school? I think the curious should find out what all the aid money is used for, rather than just complain it is being given. What if the aid money goes to Santa's workshop which outsourced toy production to the Israelis? If we stopped the aid money in that scenario, history would consider the U.S. the grinch that stole Christmas (from the Israelis no less). Am I missing something here. or before one complains, one should find out how it is being used. It could be going to buy new winter coats for poor anti-Semites somewhere?

Well. That Rummikub, the third highest selling board game in the world, is manufactured in a family-run plant in the small southern Israeli town of Arad is indeed quite an accomplishment.

On the other hand, if you'd take a random country the size of Israel, and, for decades, poured billions upon billions of dollars into it, I think the chances would be pretty good that you'd get a similar list in return.

If Israel ceased to exist as a Jewish Homeland, don't count on the U.S. to lovingly take all the Jews in. My opinion is the U.S. would take the most educated ones, the ones with the most money, and naturally their respective families. The remainder can surf in Australia, or snowshoe in Canada, if those two Commonwealth countries want a few Jews. This is my opinion. Not based on any facts.

In effect, my opinion is based on the belief that even nice, comfortable Americans are only philo-Semitic when they get good utility out of a Jew.

So, they like the Jewish dentist, doctor, teacher (that teaches their child), accountant, hard-working subordinate that is likely over-educated for the position, etc., etc. Oh, yeh, the Jewish lawyer that helps them win in litigation. So, as long as a good use is gotten from the American Jew, the American Gentile finds the Jew an asset.

What makes the American Jewish/Gentile relationship somewhat incongruous or perhaps humorous, I believe, is that only amongst the young college educated groups is there a degree of socializing easily with Jews. The bulk of the U.S. still has the belief that one's social position is being jeopardized, if one socializes a little too much (or at all) with Jews. This is my opinion.

In effect, the only anti-Semitism that can be pointed to in the U.S. is that Jews can still be social pariahs. They get into universities, get hired in big name corporations, get promotions, etc., etc., but the social interaction is still awkwards, other than the young college (usually only certain colleges too) set. Old beliefs die hard.

Perhaps, Israel should show gratitude in a more direct way; not through the politicians, but where every Jewish Israeli lines up and looking into a video camera says something like, "Thank you American taxpayer."

I think that would be nice. It could be shown on PBS.

Foofie wrote-



Well- one does feel a bit odd stood next to a circumcised bloke in the pub who has a Mamma complex.

But great honest post Foofie.

I assume you're not in the U.S., having used the word bloke. What's interesting, if that is correct (you're not an American), is that in the U.S. most Caucasians (especially Protestants) are circumcised. Also, Jewish males don't have a Mamma complex in the U.S.; they're rebelling against Mom, by dating/marrying a Gentile. Boy, are the countries different!

Foofie wrote-



I am astounded!!!

As I am also that Jewish males are marrying gentile boys.

Ha, ha. I said, "Boy are the countries different."

Circumcision is supposed to be more hygienic. Middle class and up whites tend to get circumcised. Latins may not. Blacks may not. I have no statistics. They are my opinions.

Since most males get circumcised, there is no attention made as to who is. Is this awareness of who is circumcised a remnant of European anti-Semitism??

And the fact that there is that stereotype of Jewish males being Mamma's boys, would you think the original purpose of that canard is to dissuade Christian girls from marrying them?? In the U.S. decades ago, when there was much less inter-marriage between Jews and Christians, the belief was, I believe, from the Christian perspective, that if one marries a Jew they have to give up celebrating Christmas. Well that ended, since there is just about half of the young Jews marrying Christians (mostly Catholics I believe), and no one gives up Christmas. If/when the couple has children, they get gifts for two holidays in December many times - Christmas and Hanukkah.

Americans might just be better at assimilating Jews than Europeans, probably because the anti-Semitism here was never state sponsored. Just an individual thing.

I suppose it's possible that men here are circumcised. I don't know. If they are they never mention it.

I understood that the op was in order to provide a longer performance due to the glans being desensitized from constant contact with the underpants. That might explain Steve Martin's "one thrust" joke in The Man With Two Brains.

Actually Jews almost never come up in conversation here. What I know about the subject comes from American literature and movies which are sometimes obsessed with the subject. I'm not conscious of knowing any Jews.

Joyce's hero in Ulysses was Jewish. Ellmann, in his wonderful biog of Joyce, says that he had an affinity for the Jews as a wandering, persecuted people which he felt himself to be.

He quotes Joyce as having said-



That might explain the prejudice some people have.

Ellmann also says that Joyce insisted on a similarity between the Jews and the Irish because both peoples, he maintained, were alike in being impulsive, given to fantasy, addicted to associative thinking and wanting in rational discipline.

not to mention both getting kicked around for being "the problem".

Any U.S. library seems to have an over abundance of books (novels) written by authors with Irish and Jewish names.

Also, in my opinion, both groups, as part of their respective group's culture, both have tremendous respect for education and the educated.

Both suffered from prejudice (the Irish suffered in the U.S. in the nineteenth century, and how many hundreds of years in Hibernia?). They understand each was a victim of persecution.

They were also the two main ethnic groups in the old, now gone, Vaudeville shows of the early 20th century. George Burns and Gracie Allen comes to mind.

However, in the U.S., I believe the Irish have the greatest number of Medals of Honor for heroism in the military. There are many Irish names amongst top ranking military officers. The U.S. military has not been a career of many U.S. Jews.

When New York police officers were constantly referred to as "New York's Finest," the police force was predominantly (guess):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police#Irish_American_History_of_the_NYPD

Shame on anyone that doesn't appreciate the Irish for their poetry!

Wanted to revisit this topic.

The question: what does the US get for it's 3 Billion-per-year + investment in Israel? Yglesias:



I contend that we get absolutely nothing of value. Nothing. We are not given any added or extra security as a nation. The fact that Israeli companies make products we like is immaterial - they are paid for this, so how does the extra money going to the Israeli gov't on top of this make any sense?

They don't need the money from us. Their economy is quite healthy, and if they need that money to survive militarily, then there's no reason their own citizens can't pay for it.

Can anyone provide actual, tangible benefits the US receives from its' Israeli alliance? Other than lame-ass cut and paste emails which are immaterial to the topic, of course.

Cycloptichorn