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Hillary to fight vouchers "to her last breath"

 
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 01:23 pm
Miller wrote:

Private schools that are religious schools always insist that the kids participate in relgious instruction. Do you see a Catholic kid going to a Jewisht Day School and studying Torah? Do you see a Jewish kid going to a Catholic School and learning the Latin/English words for the mass?
I don't! Surprised


Whether the catholic kids in catholic schools learn latin masses any more I don't know. But Jewish kids in catholic schools? I mean, I hate to always be the one to have to disillusion people, but that's COMMON in many areas. The lady across the street from my brother is the rabbi's daughter and HER kids to to the local catholic school.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 01:25 pm
Gungasnake wrote:
My experience has been that private schools always cost some fraction of what public schools do on a per kid basis, usually about a third to about half.

How does that work out to being unaffordable??



First, I would like to know how you come about this conclusion. Do you have any statistics to back this up?

Anyway, I don't care if private schools DO cost less, which I seriously doubt. The point is that by draining money from the public schools, they will become less and less effective. Also, I don't approve of one penny of tax money going to a school that teaches religion. If parents want their kids to get that kind of education, they have a perfect right to pay for it.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 02:01 pm
Quote:
The lady across the street from my brother is the rabbi's daughter and HER kids to to the local catholic school


So what? Perhaps her kids are Catholics...
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 02:03 pm
Miller wrote:
Depends on the private school. Some are in the order of $35,000/year. Cool


I don't call that CHEAP!
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 02:43 pm
Miller wrote:
Quote:
The lady across the street from my brother is the rabbi's daughter and HER kids to to the local catholic school


So what? Perhaps her kids are Catholics...


Not happy with the local govt. schools and there simply aren't a whole lot of Jewish schools around. Pretty simple really.
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 02:53 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
revel wrote:

Vouchers are funded by tax payers; there is simply not enough money to go around to fund every single child in America a voucher to go to a private school ....


My experience has been that private schools always cost some fraction of what public schools do on a per kid basis, usually about a third to about half.

How does that work out to being unaffordable??


I don't believe for a second that this is actually true.

Cycloptichorn


Private schools often spend less per child than public schools, but they offer a different product. Private schools typically skim the some of the low maintenance students from the system. Since they do not have to tolerate the wide spectrum of students the public schools have, they don't have to offer support for ESL programs, disadvantaged learning, special education, speech therapy, etc. They also don't bus children to school. I'm not saying that all schools don't provide these services, but many do not. Private schools use their low maintenance student bodies to attract teachers at lower salaries than the public school systems are required to pay. Often they have lower overhead since they use an actively involved parental base as volunteer labor. Consider this another form of tuition. They also do not support the regulatory bodies that monitor them like local school boards and state standards boards.

Vouchers would clearly drain funds from the public school system and the amount would not be insignificant as suggested elsewhere. By eliminating the economies of scale from the public system, the legal requirements would drive up costs dramatically. It's like allowing all the healthy people to move to their own private insurance and demanding that the insurance companies only insure the high risk portion of the population. Another analogy is the "white flight" from cities in the 70's. As people moved to secluded enclaves in the suburbs, there was less money to support the urban infrastructure, causing decay, causing more flight, causing more decay, etc.

Having a publicly funded education system that provides a reasonable quality of education to all children has been one of the greatest successes of the American experiment. If you aren't happy with the public schools, get involved and fix them.

One other thought: Many of those around here who have their children in private schools have another concern in mind: separating their children from those "disruptive elements" in the public schools. Here in the South, you can clearly read that as meaning the significant minority presence in the schools. (This is not to say that those advocating vouchers here exhibit such racially biased tendencies.) If people want to pay to keep their children in a racially pure environment, that is their business, but not with my tax dollars please.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 03:01 pm
Quote:
DOE Study Finds DC Voucher Program Doesn't Help Students

A study released today by the Department of Education's Institute for Education Sciences found "no statistically significant difference" in test scores between students who received school vouchers and their public school peers. The study lays to rest claims by voucher supporters that publicly funded school vouchers would improve academic achievement.

PFAW Foundation released a report in 2005 analyzing the shortcomings of the DC voucher program.

People For the American Way director of Public Policy Tanya Clay House issued the following statement:

"We've seen this time and again: vouchers don't help students learn. It's sad that Congress chose to play politics with these children instead of taking real action to help them improve academically.

This study is another reminder of what we've always known: public schools deserve our support. The money that was wasted in this scheme should have gone to proven reforms like smaller class sizes, improved teacher training, and stronger school-community partnerships.
EdNews
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 03:05 pm
I saw that study and I wondered if they also examined the social growth of students in private schools versus public schools and compared graduation rates and post-graduation activities...
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 03:08 pm
Maybe you should go read it.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 06:08 am
Then again, there's the other aspect of the problem.....

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=22034

That's aside from the incompetence which our "education" departments and the NEA breed of course. At some point, the American people are going to rise up in major numbers and demand some sort of an accounting for this. The remarkable drive for home schooling which has been going on in America for the last 20 years is a sort of a bellweather.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 07:54 am
From Gunga's article:
Quote:
Two of the NEA's favorite words in its resolutions and policies are "diversity," which means teaching that gay behavior is OK, and "multiculturalism," which means stressing negative things about the United States and positive things about non-Christian cultures.


Are those the other issues you speak of?
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 10:15 am
Quote:



U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., told delegates that she will fight school vouchers "with every breath in my body." Reiterating the message of her book "It Takes a Village," she called for universal preschool for 4-year-olds.

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., likewise inveighed against "passing out vouchers." Former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., also announced his opposition to vouchers...

Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, goes all out for "a universal prekindergarten system that will provide year-round day care for children age 3 to 5."

All Democratic candidates look forward to increased federal control of and spending for public schools....

The NEA demands a tax-supported, single-payer, health care plan for all residents, a word artfully chosen to include illegal immigrants....

The NEA passed at least a dozen resolutions supporting the "gay rights agenda" in public schools. These cover employment, curricula, textbooks, resource and instructional materials, school activities, role models, and language, with frequent use of terms such as sexual orientation, gender identification, and homophobia.

The NEA enthusiastically supports all the goals of radical feminism, including abortion, the Equal Rights Amendment, school-based health clinics, wage control so the government can arbitrarily raise the pay of women but not men....

The NEA supports statehood for the District of Columbia. The NEA supports affirmative action. The NEA calls for repeal of right-to-work laws, which allow teachers in some states to decline joining the NEA.

The NEA supports United Nations treaties, especially the U.N. Convention on Women, the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child, and the International Court of Justice. The NEA loves global education, which promotes world citizenship and taxing U.S. citizens to give away their wealth to other countries.

Another NEA favorite is environmental education, which teaches that human activity is generally harmful to the environment and population should be reduced....

Here are some things the NEA opposes: vouchers, tuition tax credits, parental choice programs, making English the official language of the U.S., the use of voter identification for elections, and the privatization of Social Security....

High on the list of NEA policies that actually relate to education is opposition to the testing of teachers as a criterion for job retention, promotion, tenure, or salary......

The NEA reiterated its support for pre-kindergarten for "all 3- and 4-year-old children," mandatory full-day kindergarten, and "early childhood education programs in the public schools for children from birth through age 8." The NEA demands that this "early" education have "diversity-based curricula" and "bias-free screening devices."

The NEA wants the right to teach schoolchildren about sex without any interference from parents, but on the other hand wants its pals in the bureaucracy to regulate all home-schooling taught by parents. The NEA opposes allowing home-schoolers to participate in public school sports or extracurricular activities....


The exorbitant dues teachers pay to the NEA enable its well-paid staff to lobby Congress and state legislatures on behalf of all these goals.


John Gatto, a former NYC teacher of the year and recognized expert has basically stated that govt. schools in America have come to such a point that many if not most kids would be better off being raised in the jungle by chimpanzees like Tarzan than attending them.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 11:32 am
One other point which should be obvious: Wanting universal attendance of some sort of school by all children down to the age of 3 - 5 is not about education at all; it's about control.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 11:35 am
gungasnake wrote:
One other point which should be obvious: Wanting universal attendance of some sort of school by all children down to the age of 3 - 5 is not about education at all; it's about control.


it's about necessity.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 11:38 am
Are you out of work again, kris?
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 11:41 am
for a week, yes. And you?
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 11:42 am
I wish I were so lucky. I continue to toil in the hot sun.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 11:45 am
Well, I'm doing that too. In for lunch. You should keep your computer out of that hot sun!
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 11:49 am
littlek wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
One other point which should be obvious: Wanting universal attendance of some sort of school by all children down to the age of 3 - 5 is not about education at all; it's about control.


it's about necessity.



For the controlER maybe; not for the controlEE....
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 11:50 am
littlek wrote:
Well, I'm doing that too. In for lunch. You should keep your computer out of that hot sun!


I keep a laptop under the seat of my tractor.


It remains cool.
0 Replies
 
 

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