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Roman Catholic Bishop Wants Everyone to Call God 'Allah'

 
 
Baldimo
 
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2007 03:41 pm
Quote:
A proposal by a Roman Catholic bishop in the Netherlands that people of all faiths refer to God as "Allah" is not sitting well with the Catholic community.

Tiny Muskens, an outgoing bishop who is retiring in a few weeks from the southern diocese of Breda, said God doesn't care what he is called.

"Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? ... What does God care what we call him? It is our problem," Muskens told Dutch television.

"I'm sure his intentions are good but his theology needs a little fine-tuning," said Father Jonathan Morris, a Roman Catholic priest based in Rome. Morris, a news analyst for FOX News Channel, also called the idea impractical.

"Words and names mean things," Morris said. "Referring to God as Allah means something."

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington, D.C.-based Islamic civil liberties and advocacy group, backs the idea as a way to help interfaith understanding.

"It reinforces the fact that Muslims, Christians and Jews all worship the same God," Hooper told FOXNews.com. "I don't think the name is as important as the belief in God and following God's moral principles. I think that's true for all faiths."

Christians who are Arabic speakers speak of Allah when they speak of God, Hooper added.

"There's not a theological leap to make on the part of Christians," Hooper said.

The Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago supports the idea.

"I think it will open up doors," said Janaan Hashim, a spokeswoman for the group representing more than 400,000 Muslim Americans in the Chicago area. "Language is a man-made limitation. I think what God cares about is how we fulfill our purpose in life."

The nation's largest Catholic civil rights group says Catholics won't get behind the proposal.

"Bishop Martinus "Tiny" Muskens can pray to "Allah" all he wants, but only addlepated Catholics will follow his lead," Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, said in a statement. "It is not a good sign when members of the Catholic hierarchy indulge in a fawning exchange with Muslims, or those of any other religion."

Muskens spent eight years in Indonesia, where he said priests used the word "Allah" during Mass.

Muskens also has drawn attention for other ideas such as encouraging the hungry to steal bread and offering condoms to combat HIV and AIDS.


If this is such a concern then how come He didn't call for Musilms to just call Allah God? I know why. He would have been hunted down and killed for insulting Muslims and Allah thats why.
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Miller
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2007 03:49 pm
Quote:
What does God care what we call him?


Is She doesn't care, than why call her Allah?
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dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2007 03:51 pm
Why not something neutral, like Nicki?
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2007 03:54 pm
Laughing
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Green Witch
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2007 05:27 pm
My husband, who is actually an atheist, tends to refer to God as "Big Bob" or sometimes just "Bob".
Example: "Thank Bob we didn't get hit by that falling rock!"
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2007 11:29 pm
Re: Roman Catholic Bishop Wants Everyone to Call God 'Allah'
Baldimo wrote:

If this is such a concern then how come He didn't call for Musilms to just call Allah God? I know why. He would have been hunted down and killed for insulting Muslims and Allah thats why.


Well, actually he's a Roman Catholic bishop. Perhaps he thought his influence to be greater on Catholics than on Muslims?

If you had read your quoted article, you'd noticed that his idea sources from the 8 years he worked in Indochina, where (like in all Arabian countries) God is called Allah in all Christian churches.

Bishop Muskens said on Dutch tv:
Quote:
"Someone like me has prayed to Allah yang maha kuasa (Almighty God) for eight years in Indonesia and other priests for 20 or 30 years. In the heart of the Eucharist, God is called Allah over there, so why can't we start doing that together?"


The bishop actually said exactly the same several years ago. He also suggested abolishing Whit Monday as a national holiday in favour of an Islamic religious day.

In the past, Bishop Muskens has offended many Muslims. In 2005 he said Islam was a religion without a future because it had too many violent aspects. The bishop is also responsible for a number of controversial remarks. He caused uproar in the Netherlands when he said the poor had a right to steal bread if they were hungry. And he put the Vatican's back up with an appeal for the use of condoms in the fight against AIDS.
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pstewart
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2007 11:33 pm
This thread reminds me of that scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian where no one was permitted to say Jehovah by name. A guard explained that to the crowd, and saying something like "Anyone who says the name of Jehovah will be stoned." Upon which they immediately stoned him for saying Jehovah.

On a more serious note... Religion can serve a useful purpose to society, but even peaceful religions can get really really silly and make stupid rules in the name of some god which only bring grief to the world. I'd hate to see some religious beliefs go away, but other beliefs? Well some people have been so poisoned by religious teachings that they will never stop trying to impose their nasty and bizarre rules on everyone else. These "believers" form an incurable cancer that has to be surgically removed if it won't respond to other therapies; i.e., they must be eliminated if they can't be stopped by reason or less drastic means. Cancer kills the host, so if you let these deadly beliefs spread without early treatment, the point will be reached where surgery won't even help and death is a certainty.
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2007 01:00 am
pstewart wrote

Quote:
Religion can serve a useful purpose to society


No it can serve a useful purpose for individuals. In terms of "society" the evidence is that it is pernicious.

Slaughter by any other name would smell as sweet !
0 Replies
 
pstewart
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2007 11:21 pm
Fresco, I was speaking there of certain religions, not the destructive ones...there certainly are some destructive religious beliefs that are harmful to society. But in the US, at least, I don't mind having tons of Christians around. After all, Christians believe if they cheat, steal, murder, etc. they will spend time in Hell, so that's a darn good deterrent to crime. I don't care what the reason is for people to do what's right, as long as they do.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 12:56 am
Hmm...good theory.... :wink:

But one wonders why, for example, the homicide rate in the US, a country of high religiosity is so significantly elevated to say that of the UK, a country of low religiosity.

In the words of one contemporary philosopher
Quote:
Religion is an insult to the dignity of man. With it or without it, good people will do good things and bad people will do bad things, but it takes religion for good people to do bad thimgs.


That "dignity point" comes come to roost when we consider that a celibate man in a frock is exhorting people to call his imaginary friend "Allah", a name particularly associated with "good people" doing "bad things".
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 01:10 pm
I agree that it is preferable to use the word "Allah" instead of God.

Why do Muslims use the word "Allah" instead of the word "God": http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2651856
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 01:41 pm
Quote:
He caused uproar in the Netherlands when he said the poor had a right to steal bread if they were hungry.


If they didn't steal the bread, they would have died. Better to steal and eat, than to die.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 02:43 pm
Yes, that's about what he said.
0 Replies
 
mismi
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 02:46 pm
I am thinking Tiny Muskens wants to be remembered. Maybe this is his way of being memorable.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 02:49 pm
mismi40 wrote:
I am thinking Tiny Muskens wants to be remembered. Maybe this is his way of being memorable.


Yopu know more about him? Read anything (in Dutch, perhaps)?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 06:57 pm
I just don't see American Evangelical Protestants changing their lexicon. Like they have a real close relationship with Jesus (on a first name basis).

Who knows about Europe though? There are so many lapsed Christians there, would many even care? To these lapsed Christians, would it just be "academic"?

If this ever came to pass (changing the term to reference God), I believe, it would likely just be a European thing, and just make the U.S. in one more way (it's mores and culture) different from Europe. That might be a good thing, I think, especially if it annoys the "chic" Francophiles that live on the upper east side of Manhattan.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 12:56 am
Besides that I doubt that many - or better: any - (European) Christians outside the Catholic church (better: outside the Netherlands) would really bother about this, besides that: about what "lapsed Christians" in Europe are you talking?
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 10:22 pm
fresco wrote:
Hmm...good theory.... :wink:

But one wonders why, for example, the homicide rate in the US, a country of high religiosity is so significantly elevated to say that of the UK, a country of low religiosity.

In the words of one contemporary philosopher
Quote:
Religion is an insult to the dignity of man. With it or without it, good people will do good things and bad people will do bad things, but it takes religion for good people to do bad thimgs.


That "dignity point" comes come to roost when we consider that a celibate man in a frock is exhorting people to call his imaginary friend "Allah", a name particularly associated with "good people" doing "bad things".

Fresco's fallacy of false dilemma. The number of religious people may have no bearing on the homicide rate whatsoever.

Try again.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 12:05 am
Bartikus,

You've been hiding !

The fact that the crime rate and religiosity are both high may indeed be a co-incidence, but wuld merely suggest the null hypothesis in the US at least. In Islamic theocracies the crime rate is low but at the expense of freedom of the individual and a sociopathic attitude to "infidels".
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 12:25 am
Quote:
religiosity


A nonsense term in the US, as many Americans will claim to be Christians, but few will attend a church or even support a church.

Likewise for other religions.
0 Replies
 
 

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