Don 't Take $$ From Strangers ??

Doowop wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Can we agree that his offense is significantly worse
than if he had robbed $5 from the boy, Doowop ?[/b]

I can't answer that question, as it would've been split second stuff that was brought about by his actions, and there is a small chance that he may have meant no harm.
However, if he'd have been robbing my lad, the action itself would have taken more time, giving me a proper opportunity to punch him so hard in the mouth that he's have to stick a toothbrush up his backside to clean his teeth.

As much as I admire your philosophy in this matter, Doowop,
I must say that I find it IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE that
" there is a small chance that he may have meant no harm. "

OBVIOUSLY, he DID mean a lot of harm.
You are just too soft on him.

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OmSigDAVID wrote:

As much as I admire your philosophy in this matter, Doowop,
I must say that I find it IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE that
" there is a small chance that he may have meant no harm. "

OBVIOUSLY, he DID mean a lot of harm.
You are just too soft on him.

You're still in the heat of the moment David. I'm now calmly assessing the situation like a reasonable adult, over a soothing Latte. Very Happy

Having had a copious amount of time and sufficient Latte, I say that there is no actual hard evidence to absolutely prove beyond doubt that he 100% meant harm. In the heat of the moment though, in that split second, and as that lad's parent, I wouldn't have been worrying about evidence.

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I've had that situation where my son wasn't home on time, cops and all. As soon as the cops show up, around the corner comes my son and his friend.

I'm a parent who raised her son in the city (suburb of Boston -Waltham) where we had several known sex offenders living right in my neighbourhood, so I know fear for my son and kept a good eye on him.

I still stand by my opinion that this really isn't that big a deal.

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So do you think that you'd have left well alone and let your young son handle the situation, had the stranger suddenly walked up to him and asked "Hello, little boy, can I give you some money?" After all, it's no big deal, it's only a complete stranger (male adult) probably doing a kindly deed.

I think not, somehow.

You'd have immediately stepped in as the very concerned parent, I suspect, quite angry under the surface because this man had not taken the trouble or had the basic social wherewithall, or purposely chose not to, clear it with you in the first place.

And before anyone says that's different as the man is making verbal contact, how much more sinister is it for a parent (in the heat of the moment) to see an adult male hand, origins unknown, just appear through the crowd and plant some money on their young son?

My inital reaction in that split second? Freak, singling out my boy for reasons unknown.

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Does anyone care to comment,
comparing and contrasting another situation, from the 1990s ?

A 13 year old girl was on her way home from school,
carrying her books, at the first stop of the bus route;
( the same route, in the opposite direction ).
It was not yet time for the bus to leave, to begin its route.
She came up short with ( or without ) her bus fare.
The bus driver threw her off the bus.

She stood in the bus stop, in heavy-duty crying.
Some guy got off the bus, and offered her some bus tokens.

Will anyone offer opinions about that ?

David

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Are you an angler, David? You have a very impressive hook on you.

OK, off the top of my head, if I was the man I'd have probably made sure the bus driver knew what I was doing before approaching her, but it sounds like a scenario where a fellow human being was in need (taking into consideration the fact that she's a young lass and could face all kinds of danger if left stranded) and yes I would offer her the bus fare. I would like to think that most right minded adults would do the same.
I would make it short and sweet, and probably have tried to involve a passing adult (female preferably) if there were other people around, just to keep it all above board for the lassie's sake.

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Got to go now, something's just arrived. I'll do a MacArthur now and promise to return.

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Thank u.

Other opinions ?

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sozobe wrote:

Chai wrote:
If the person became offended, but really meant well, oh well....maybe he learns a lesson to stay away from momma lions cub. Like I said, if it came to the protection of a child, I don't care who thinks I'm over reacting.

I totally agree as a general concept. If my child's safety is actually at risk, I'm going to do whatever it takes to protect her, other people's feelings be damned.

It's just, was this such a risk? Relative risks need to be weighed. Is blowing up at the guy who gave the kid $5 really going to be more protective, in sum, or will it be more likely to make the kid nervous and edgy and worried about everyone and their motivations?

I've taken several self-defense courses and every one mentions that predators look for people who are nervous, ill-at-ease. That simply being confident -- long, even strides, not looking around fearfully, shoulders back, chin up -- is often enough to indicate to the baddies that this particular one probably is not the best one to mess with. (This isn't 100% of course, but in terms of averages and what makes one more or less safe.) Feeling like perverts are lurking around every corner doesn't impart that kind of confidence.

I know you're just talking about this one instance, but if that level of protection continues across the board ("How DARE you give my child that banana!!!? Yes he was hungry but jeez, get a clue!!"), I don't think it actually averages out to increased safety for the child.

soz....you seem to think I am this one dimentional person....you and others (and myself) can pick out varying situations until the cows come home, and Obviously each situation would warrant a slightly, or very different reaction.

Relative risk? Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing....a total stranger giving a child money is a risk that warrants "pushing his lights out"....although, I'm sorry you pick up from my words that I would be screaming this at the top of my lungs to the man on the bus....."How DARE you can be said very quietly, and in a low tone....and yes, I think that would show A LOT of confidence. One often can't tell anothers confidence level when that person is simply sitting on a bus, or waiting room. Add words to the mix, and you'll get a more total picture.

So....to a person offering food to my child....it would totally depend on the setting. Did you think my vocabulary was so limited that I would use the exact same words in every situation?
If it was totally out of the blue, and I got a strange feeling about the person, yes, I would say something...however, it would also depend on the environment....is this person so "off" that he might become angry depending on the level of interaction? Are there other people around? Had he been giving off signals that I didn't like? (and no, I'm not going to type out every possible thing that would get my flags up)...or, is this someone I'd been having idle conversation with for the last 15 minutes?

In the banana scenerio...No, I think it's clear I wouldn't scream "how DARE you", I would however, because I would have been teaching my child not to accept things from strangers....would say to the person something like "I wish you'd ask me first" or "don't you think you should have asked me first?"

Children learning their own ways to deal with these situations? Well, who in the world is supposed to be teaching them this? I don't accept gifts from strangers, so why wouldn't I teach my child the same?

I don't walk around suspecious of every person, but I have my limits on what is acceptable from someone I don't know, and what is not....and that depends on where I am, who I'm with, what time it is, and a lot of other things. I adapt to the situation.....If I was with a 14 year old, and they were offered something, I'd watch but leave it in their hands what to do.....if they were 8, 4, 16, 10....my reaction would vary and could go from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Did you really think I would treat a stranger offering my child money the same regardless if they were 5 years old or 15?

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Chai wrote:

Relative risk? Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing....a total stranger giving a child money is a risk that warrants "pushing his lights out"....although, I'm sorry you pick up from my words that I would be screaming this at the top of my lungs to the man on the bus....."How DARE you can be said very quietly, and in a low tone....and yes, I think that would show A LOT of confidence. One often can't tell anothers confidence level when that person is simply sitting on a bus, or waiting room. Add words to the mix, and you'll get a more total picture.

Quietly, in a low tone? This is what you said originally:

Quote:

yes, if someone gave a child under my care money I would "punch his light out"
in that I would certainly immediately confront him with
"WHAT do you think you are doing?! DON'T you give my child something
without me knowing about it!!! WHY would you try to give a child that!!!???

And my point wasn't YOUR level of confidence, but what sort of confidence level you would impart to the child you're with. That kind of yelling -- and I don't see how you can call what you typed in the paragraph I quoted anything but yelling -- is going to be distressing for the kid next to you. It's going to impart the message that "this is a huge deal and you should be very, very worried about this situation." My point was that if that level of reaction is consistently elicited by similar levels of infractions, that's gonna be one jumpy, nervous kid. And being jumpy and nervous (as well as being unfortunate in and of itself) doesn't contribute to overall safety.

Again, I agree that some sort of talking to the kid about the situation is appropriate, and I think most everyone else here has agreed on that too. It's precisely the manner in which that talking happens that is at issue, though. I still have no idea what actually happened in this situation (is there any chance the guy simply dropped $5, and it happened to land on the kid?) and certainly am not claiming to. But I don't see any situation that would fit with what David has told us thus far that would warrant the kind of blow-up that you describe above. (As in, perhaps there is something that would warrant the no-holds-barred approach, like the guy groping the kid while handing him the bill, but David has gone over things pretty thoroughly and nothing like that has been claimed.)

I also don't see the ages as having anything significant to do with the ill-advisedness of the yelling approach. That's going to traumatize a younger kid and embarrass an older one -- there isn't really a right age for it.

And David, no, I don't see the situation you describe as being equivalent to the man stealing $5 from the kid.

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How about this possiblity: the guy just wanted to give the kid $5. He knew that everyone around him, including the parent, would think it was weird and take it the wrong way, so he just drops the money on the kid's lap as he exits the bus and disappears into the crowd.
Or, maybe the mother looked as if she needed $5, and the easier way to give it to her without her being embarrassed was to give it to the kid instead.
I doubt - seriously doubt - that the guy meant any harm. I would assume that all he meant to do was GIVE A STRANGER A SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY.
For whatever reason he did it, he didn't wait around for a thank you, and it sounds as if he didn't even want to be recognized for his generosity, which is why he did it as he exited into the crowd.

Why do we have to take a simple thing, slightly weird as it may be, and turn it into something sinister because of something that might have happened, or could happen.

What if, instead of a $5 bill.....the man had dropped a baseball card (valued at $5) on the kid's lap?

I have been at amusement parks where I've had extra ride tickets left over (when I'm about to leave) and I've walked up to kids and given the tickets away to them. They've happily accepted them and given me a big THANKS! and no one thinks anything else about it. I feel good about it, and the kid feels great.

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sozobe wrote:

Quietly, in a low tone? This is what you said originally:

Quote:

yes, if someone gave a child under my care money I would "punch his light out"
in that I would certainly immediately confront him with
"WHAT do you think you are doing?! DON'T you give my child something
without me knowing about it!!! WHY would you try to give a child that!!!???

And This you assumed to be yelling? Confused

You have never said something directly, forcefully, with exclamations points in your voice, certain words really emphsized.....where you were not speaking above a designated decibel level?

And then you continue and use the word "yelling" at least twice more?

Soz, all due respect, it would be a good idea if you stopped assuming so much about volume level, and assuming because someone is being dead serious with emphasized words that they are being loud.

Think Olympia Ducacus in that movie she was in with Cher...Moon something or other....she never raised her voice...but her points were dead clear.

Best line (and one of the funniest) of her's in the movie...."Old man, you give another plate of my food to those dogs and I'm going to kick you until you're dead"

She said that in a very low tone.

Please, Rolling Eyes

I think there's more levels to me than screaming uncontrolably and upsetting a child. In fact, I'd think it'd give the message to a child one can be in control both of themselves and the situation.

BTW - I loathe screaming and yelling, it shuts me down.

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Several words in all caps, and multiple exclamation points... so sorry to have made such a baseless assumption. Laughing

If you're now saying you'd prefer not to yell in that situation, though, fine, I agree.

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Quote:

My inital reaction in that split second? Freak, singling out my boy for reasons unknown.

This is the whole issue.

Really this was not some random split second. Someone noticed your kid, watched your kid, made a decision to make contact with your kid, thought it through, got out their wallet, pulled out a bill, held onto it until they could reach through and drop it in your kids lap; singling out your kid for unknown reasons.

That's pretty creepy in my book.

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I agree it's creepy. I don't really see many people disagreeing.

This main disagreement seems to be, what then?

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I guess the "no big deal" is the major disagreement.

I do think it's a big deal.

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Hmm. I think it could be a big deal. I think it could not be. I think the key is to have a low-key exchange with the kid, covering all of those bases.

If it was sozlet, I'd probably handle it something like:

Me: Did you know that guy?

Sozlet: No. [if she said yes, that'd be another direction]

Me: Well that was weird...

Sozlet: Yeah..!

Me: Why do you think he gave that to you?

Sozlet: I don't know... [she might look longingly at the bill at this point as she sensed where things were going, or she might have ideas, hard to predict]

Me: Do you think you should keep it?

Sozlet: Probably not.

Me: Why not?

Sozlet: [might answer, might shrug -- we've gone over this kind of thing before. Likely that she'd get some pertinent stuff in here. If not, I'd reiterate with:]

Me: It could be that he just dropped it accidentally, or that he thought he was being nice. But if he gave it to you without checking with me at all, that's just not appropriate. [might go into it further here depending on how she's responding, might leave it at that] What would you like to do?

Sozlet: [would probably, if ruefully, suggest giving it to the bus driver or something]

Me: Good idea!

I think the "big deal" stuff is not so much about whether it couldn't possibly have been done for nefarious reasons, but that punching the guys lights out literally or metaphorically isn't necessarily called for.

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boomerang wrote:

Quote:
My inital reaction in that split second? Freak, singling out my boy for reasons unknown.

This is the whole issue.

Really this was not some random split second. Someone noticed your kid, watched your kid, made a decision to make contact with your kid, thought it through, got out their wallet, pulled out a bill, held onto it until they could reach through and drop it in your kids lap; singling out your kid for unknown reasons.

Exactly! It is very unlikely that this act was immediately spontaneous. One second he's standing there minding his own business, the next second he's had a sudden impulse to give someone money, drawn out a note and dropped it into the lap of the nearest person. He had thought it through, and whatever the ulterior motive, it's very odd and unsettling that he hadn't considered the accompanying adult in his thought process.

Not normal adult behaviour by a long shot, so it is only natural in my mind, that his abnormal behaviour towards a child will bring about a reaction that he may not enjoy.

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Once again, I'm in full agreement with you Soz, and I would have had that same similar conversation with my son.

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I too would have a similar conversation.

And once we got home I would have called the police and the bus company.

And speaking of the bus company... I can't believe a driver would put a child off the bus. Here they are one of a kid's first lines of defense. Mo knows that if he is ever lost or scared that he should get on the first city bus he sees and tell the driver that he is lost and scared. He knows how to identify a bus stop and we've even practiced riding the bus.

Nevertheless, if I saw something like the girl getting put off the bus it would be easy to address without ever speaking to the girl in question: "Stop the bus. I'll pay her fare." Give the money to the driver. Done.

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Don 't Take $$ From Strangers ??

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