1
   

Don 't Take $$ From Strangers ??

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 04:38 pm
Chai wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Chai wrote:
If the person became offended, but really meant well, oh well....maybe he learns a lesson to stay away from momma lions cub. Like I said, if it came to the protection of a child, I don't care who thinks I'm over reacting.


I totally agree as a general concept. If my child's safety is actually at risk, I'm going to do whatever it takes to protect her, other people's feelings be damned.

It's just, was this such a risk? Relative risks need to be weighed. Is blowing up at the guy who gave the kid $5 really going to be more protective, in sum, or will it be more likely to make the kid nervous and edgy and worried about everyone and their motivations?

I've taken several self-defense courses and every one mentions that predators look for people who are nervous, ill-at-ease. That simply being confident -- long, even strides, not looking around fearfully, shoulders back, chin up -- is often enough to indicate to the baddies that this particular one probably is not the best one to mess with. (This isn't 100% of course, but in terms of averages and what makes one more or less safe.) Feeling like perverts are lurking around every corner doesn't impart that kind of confidence.

I know you're just talking about this one instance, but if that level of protection continues across the board ("How DARE you give my child that banana!!!? Yes he was hungry but jeez, get a clue!!"), I don't think it actually averages out to increased safety for the child.



soz....you seem to think I am this one dimentional person....you and others (and myself) can pick out varying situations until the cows come home, and Obviously each situation would warrant a slightly, or very different reaction.

Relative risk? Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing....a total stranger giving a child money is a risk that warrants "pushing his lights out"....although, I'm sorry you pick up from my words that I would be screaming this at the top of my lungs to the man on the bus....."How DARE you can be said very quietly, and in a low tone....and yes, I think that would show A LOT of confidence. One often can't tell anothers confidence level when that person is simply sitting on a bus, or waiting room. Add words to the mix, and you'll get a more total picture.

So....to a person offering food to my child....it would totally depend on the setting. Did you think my vocabulary was so limited that I would use the exact same words in every situation?
If it was totally out of the blue, and I got a strange feeling about the person, yes, I would say something...however, it would also depend on the environment....is this person so "off" that he might become angry depending on the level of interaction? Are there other people around? Had he been giving off signals that I didn't like? (and no, I'm not going to type out every possible thing that would get my flags up)...or, is this someone I'd been having idle conversation with for the last 15 minutes?

In the banana scenerio...No, I think it's clear I wouldn't scream "how DARE you", I would however, because I would have been teaching my child not to accept things from strangers....would say to the person something like "I wish you'd ask me first" or "don't you think you should have asked me first?"

Children learning their own ways to deal with these situations? Well, who in the world is supposed to be teaching them this? I don't accept gifts from strangers, so why wouldn't I teach my child the same?

I don't walk around suspecious of every person, but I have my limits on what is acceptable from someone I don't know, and what is not....and that depends on where I am, who I'm with, what time it is, and a lot of other things. I adapt to the situation.....If I was with a 14 year old, and they were offered something, I'd watch but leave it in their hands what to do.....if they were 8, 4, 16, 10....my reaction would vary and could go from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Did you really think I would treat a stranger offering my child money the same regardless if they were 5 years old or 15?

Giving someone food is MORE dangerous
than cash, because the food cud be bad.
We ve seen on TV and in the papers about trips to the E.R. with food poisoning.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:40 pm
Doowop wrote:

Have you come in here purposely seeking a confrontation, nimh?

Go roll your eyes in a condescending manner somewhere else.




That's just what nimh does doowop...next he'll pick some off the cuff thing you said about 40 pages ago and hang on to it like the world will end if he doesn't get this resolved.

no matter how you try to explain it, he'll keep orbiting back around to the original point, because as everyone knows, people should carefully analyze every word they say at all times.

Then, if he doesn't like what you say to him, he'll say "f*ck you" and go off in a huff for a day or two.

That's basically why you can't give a stranger a dirty look or tell them to back off, because you supposed to imagine every possible situation in the universe that might have caused what ever offended you to happen. And then discuss it with them for about four years.

Oh, and all people with money don't care a thing about the poor, and constantly take advantage of them, and shouldn't be allowed for a moment to enjoy themselves. Don't get nimh started on that either.


oh, and as long as I'm being a bitch....One of the other posters here that talked about all this over reacting was someone who in the past said all people who even think it's possible that one day in the indeterminate future they could abuse a child should shoot themselves in the head with a gun. Then defended that position for days.....but we're over reacting.

You'll recognize this poster when they come around and tells me what an "idiot" I am and use all sorts of laughing emoticons that appear to have little to nothing to do with anything.

But hey, I'm just over reacting.



BTW doowop...I hope you hang around here for a long time. I like you, you have common sense.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:57 pm
boomerang wrote:
I guess the "no big deal" is the major disagreement.

I do think it's a big deal.

Yes.
What do u consider to be proper justice and suitable vengeance for this outrage ?
( if he had been captured in time )
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 08:03 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
boomerang wrote:
I guess the "no big deal" is the major disagreement.

I do think it's a big deal.

Yes.
What do u consider to be proper justice and suitable vengeance for this outrage ?
( if he had been captured in time )


Well for starters I never said it was an outrage. I said that it would make me really uncomfortable. I said that I thought it was creepy; that I didn't think the money dropper guy understood that there are boundries that you don't cross with kids.

Vengence and justice?

Huh?

I've said a few times that I'd call the police and bus company.

Does that count as vengence or justice?
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 08:08 pm
Samuel L. Jackson says "vengence is the lords"

pulp fiction.

It's up to the lord to smite someone with his smoter.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 08:21 pm
What kind of smoter does the lord use anyway?

A terrible swift sword?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 08:42 pm
Doowop wrote:
boomerang wrote:
Quote:
My inital reaction in that split second? Freak, singling out my boy for reasons unknown.


This is the whole issue.

Really this was not some random split second. Someone noticed your kid, watched your kid, made a decision to make contact with your kid, thought it through, got out their wallet, pulled out a bill, held onto it until they could reach through and drop it in your kids lap; singling out your kid for unknown reasons.


Exactly! It is very unlikely that this act was immediately spontaneous. One second he's standing there minding his own business, the next second he's had a sudden impulse to give someone money, drawn out a note and dropped it into the lap of the nearest person. He had thought it through, and whatever the ulterior motive, it's very odd and unsettling that he hadn't considered the accompanying adult in his thought process.

Not normal adult behaviour by a long shot,
so it is only natural in my mind, that his abnormal behaviour towards a child
will bring about a reaction that he may not enjoy.

YES.
WELL SAID; u have a way with words
.
In earlier years, we had tar and feathers for weirdo perverts like that.
Sadly, I saw no one appropriately equipped on the bus.

One point tho:
it is uncertain as to whether the victim knew anyone on the bus or not.


I told someone I know about this.
He remembered seeing something like this
happen at the Bronx Zoo some years ago:
he saw about a dozen Boyscouts in uniform seated on benches,
when a weirdo approached about 20 feet from them
and with no warning just THREW many dimes and quarters on the ground in front of them,
and then like the creep on the bus, he also left the area.

( Maybe he was the SAME guy ??!!! )
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 08:57 pm
boomerang wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
boomerang wrote:
I guess the "no big deal" is the major disagreement.

I do think it's a big deal.

Yes.
What do u consider to be proper justice and suitable vengeance for this outrage ?
( if he had been captured in time )


Quote:
Well for starters I never said it was an outrage.

WHAT ??
Now, are u DEFENDING HIM ?????






Quote:
I said that it would make me really uncomfortable.
I said that I thought it was creepy; that I didn't think the money dropper guy
understood that there are boundries that you don't cross with kids.

Well, he has to be taught some MANNERS, right ????





Quote:
Vengence and justice?

Huh?

I've said a few times that I'd call the police and bus company.
Does that count as vengence or justice?
ONLY
if something bad happens to him, as a result.
If not, then he 'd probably never even KNOW about it.






.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 09:37 pm
boomerang wrote:
I too would have a similar conversation.

And once we got home I would have called the police and the bus company.

And speaking of the bus company...
Quote:
I can't believe a driver would put a child off the bus.

I SAW him DO it, after he INSULTED her.



Quote:

Nevertheless, if I saw something like the girl getting put off the bus
it would be easy to address without ever speaking to the girl in question:
"Stop the bus. I'll pay her fare." Give the money to the driver. Done.

1 ) girl mounts bus and unsuccessfully tries to pay fare before bus leaves its 1st stop, to begin its route

2 ) bus driver insults said girl

3 ) bus driver throws said girl off bus

4 ) said girl weeps bitterly out in bus stop

5 ) passengers see her wailing out there ( bus has windows )

6 ) a passenger loudly stomps off bus, giving driver a fiercely contemptuous look on the way out,
approaches weaping girl and offers her bus tokens, while everyone on the bus stares at him,
including driver ( who has left his seat and is standing in the doorway by his dispatcher ),
all of whose rapt attention is focused on this drama
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 09:59 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Actually, most, if not all, of our political parties have "child-friendly" in their programs.

What I mean is that giving e.g. some money to children who you find nice, who you like ... isn't that "abnomal" is called here on the thread elsewhere.

Not saying that it's the rule or eveyday-normality.

I like sozobe's approach.

During the fullness of my life, Walter,
at all ages, it seemed natural to me
to ignore everyone else, of all ages, unless there were a reason
to address and engage anyone.

If so, then I always spoke to everyone of every age
the same way, straight from the shoulder,
just said what was on my mind,
never caring whose relatives were around or not,
nor at whom I shud look, altho I usually look at whoever I am speaking to;
no fancy dances of looking all over back n forth, etc.

After the communication has been completed,
I resumed minding my own business again and leaving everyone alone.
0 Replies
 
plantress
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 07:45 am
keep the $
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 07:47 am
plantress wrote:
keep the $


lol! simple, easy and no bfd. Cool
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 07:52 am
No, I'm not defending him, just saying that this isn't an "outrage".

I've said several times what I would do in the situation described. Are you asking now what I would do if I had the opportunity to confront the man?

I suppose I would have handed the money back and said in a big mamma bear voice "Leave my kid alone." and see where it went from there.

Then when I got home I would call the police and the bus company.


As to the girl thrown off the bus -- if everyone was just standing around I don't understand why it was necessary for anyone to get off the bus and engage her directly. Approach the driver, pay her fare, wave her aboard. Done.

Then when I got home I would have called the bus company and reported the jerk of a driver.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 08:34 am
Boy scouts again david?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 05:47 pm
happycat wrote:
plantress wrote:
keep the $


lol! simple, easy and no bfd. Cool

What is bfd ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 06:14 pm
boomerang wrote:
Quote:
No, I'm not defending him,
just saying that this isn't an "outrage".

It was an act of UNCONSCIONABLE DEPRAVITY !
Maybe he was a homosexual.








Quote:
I've said several times what I would do in the situation described.
Are you asking now what I would do if I had the opportunity to confront the man?

I suppose I would have handed the money back
and said in a big mamma bear voice "Leave my kid alone." and see where it went from there.

What 'd u do if he did not ACCEPT IT from u ?






Quote:
As to the girl thrown off the bus -- if everyone was just standing around
I don't understand why it was necessary for anyone to get off the bus
and engage her directly.
Approach the driver, pay her fare, wave her aboard. Done.

She did not accept the opportunity
to board the bus; she did not accept the bus tokens.
Hence, the bus company 'd have been unjustly enriched,
in exchange for NO services rendered to the cast off girl.







Quote:

Then when I got home I would have called the bus company
and reported the jerk of a driver.

The bus company KNEW, in that his BOSS,
his Bus Dispatcher was there, with his attention
as raptly fixed upon this drama as anyone.
The driver CONVERSED with his Dispatcher.
He was in on it. He ratified the driver 's decision in the matter.
Were it otherwise, he cud have REVERSED IT.

Not long ago I boarded the bus with no money on my Metrocard.
( I was not aware of this. ) I had plenty of cash in the form of bills
and of coinage, but the driver waved ( and waived ) me back;
told me to forget about it.


0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 06:40 pm
Quote:
It was an act of UNCONSCIONABLE DEPRAVITY !


So, okay. You witnessed this "unconscionable depravity", right?

What did you do about it?

Nothing?

Do you typically do nothing when you witness "unconscionable depravity"?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 07:01 pm
Doowop wrote:
nimh wrote:
Doowop wrote:
It certainly wouldn't have involved me shaking the man by the hand and declaring that he must be a fine upstanding member of society, who's generosity has made my lad's day, wishing him a good day and patting him on the back as he exited the bus.

Yeah, because that of course is what other posters here have been suggesting.. not. Rolling Eyes

Have you come in here purposely seeking a confrontation, nimh? Well you won't get it from me. [..]

I originally came in here to express my opinion, and think I did it pretty well. Just because you don't like it, there's no need to wet your knickers.

Go roll your eyes in a condescending manner somewhere else.

My roll of the eye was just in response to your elaborate set-up here. You defend your own opinion by saying that well, no, you wouldnt "shake the man by the hand and declare that he must be a fine upstanding member of society, who's generosity has made your lad's day, wishing him a good day and patting him on the back as he exited the bus." But, of course, noone has suggested people should do anything remotely like that in such a situation.

A bunch of posters here have disagreed with what we saw as an overreaction in Chai's, Boom's and your part, but nobody remotely pretended that what you should do is, you know, embrace the man. Just that its not immediately reason to call in the cops.

So that why I rolled my eyes. It's just a bit dishonest, to set up this fake contrast, where you put yourself down as being merely reasonably by contrasting your take with some ridiculous opposite extreme that you made up yourself - rather than with, you know, what people have actually been saying.

(It's called a "straw man" in debating terms, but Chai gets all agitated if I use those.)
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 07:14 pm
sozobe wrote:
Hmm. I think it could be a big deal.
I think it could not be.
I think the key is to have a low-key exchange with the kid, covering all of those bases.

If it was sozlet, I'd probably handle it something like:

Me: Did you know that guy?

Sozlet: No. [if she said yes, that'd be another direction]

Me: Well that was weird...

Sozlet: Yeah..!

Me: Why do you think he gave that to you?

Sozlet: I don't know... [she might look longingly at the bill at this point
as she sensed where things were going, or she might have ideas,
hard to predict]

Me: Do you think you should keep it?

Sozlet: Probably not.

Me: Why not?

Sozlet: [might answer, might shrug -- we've gone over this kind of thing before.
Likely that she'd get some pertinent stuff in here.
If not, I'd reiterate with:]

Me: It could be that he just dropped it accidentally, or that he thought he was being nice.
But if he gave it to you without checking with me at all, that's just not appropriate.
[might go into it further here depending on how she's responding,
might leave it at that] What would you like to do?

Sozlet: [would probably, if ruefully, suggest giving it to the bus driver or something]

Me: Good idea!



I think the "big deal" stuff is not so much about whether it couldn't
possibly have been done for nefarious reasons, but that punching the
guys lights out literally or metaphorically isn't necessarily called for.







AS A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT,
LET 's RUN THIS THRU AGAIN,
WITH AN AMENDMENT RENDERED IN BLUE FONT,
and u fill in the new ending:



sozobe wrote:
Hmm. I think it could be a big deal.
I think it could not be.
I think the key is to have a low-key exchange with the kid, covering all of those bases.

If it was sozlet, I'd probably handle it something like:

Me: Did you know that guy?

Sozlet: No. [if she said yes, that'd be another direction]

Me: Well that was weird...

Sozlet: Yeah..!

Me: Why do you think he gave that to you?

Sozlet: I don't know... [she might look longingly at the bill at this point as
she sensed where things were going, or she might have ideas, hard to predict]

Me: Do you think you should keep it?

Sozlet: ONLY until I figure out how to spend it.

Me: ????????????????????????

Sozlet: [might answer, might shrug -- we've gone over this kind of thing before.
Likely that she'd get some pertinent stuff in here. If not, I'd reiterate with:]

Me: It could be that he just dropped it accidentally, or that he thought he was being nice.
But if he gave it to you without checking with me at all, that's just not appropriate.
[might go into it further here depending on how she's responding, might leave it at that]


Sozlet: If he were going to take the trouble to do that,
wudn 't u think he 'd make it WORTHWHILE ?
Y didn 't he leave a $20 or a $50 ? That weirdo was a CHEAPSKATE
.


Me: What would you like to do?

Sozlet: Figure out how I can get the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE DELIGHT in exchange for $5.


Me: Good idea!



I think the "big deal" stuff is not so much about whether it couldn't
possibly have been done for nefarious reasons, but that punching the
guys lights out literally or metaphorically isn't necessarily called for.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 07:20 pm
Actually -- and the thread had died down so I didn't say so, but now it certainly seems pertinent -- a couple of days ago I asked the kid what she would do in this situation. Before I finished describing the situation she started shaking her head and saying "Noooo..." I trailed off (about at where the guy got off the bus) and said "What?" She said, "No, I wouldn't keep the money." I asked what she'd do, and she acted out just standing up so the money would slide off her lap and on to the floor (not even touching it). Then she said, "I'd just dump it on the floor and let you take care of it."

I asked why, and she said, "It could be a bad prank." (Her exact phrasing.) I asked what that meant, and her explanation was long and I don't remember further exact phrasing but basically, she didn't want the guy to think she owed him anything.

So, yeah, no.
0 Replies
 
 

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