How do we know that Christians are Delusional?

It is in no way apparent that these statements are from the "someone" to whom they are attributed.One reason to think there probably isn't a plan is that there is no reason to think that there is. People who believe there is a "plan" have been taught to believe it. A person doesn't have to be taught that there is no "plan" (unless he has previously been taught that there is!). Do you disagree? Do you believe that the burden of proof is in your favor?
Let's not jump to conclusions, Bart!

People plan, God purposes. (Isaiah 55:10, 11)

So God has a purposes for everything then. Thanks for the scripture quote hankarin.

Can you come up with the scripture that says what our purpose is?

If one is to believe fundies the purpose of a vast majority of people on this planet is to go to hell. Only through Jesus can to get to God and if you don't go through Jesus than go to hell.

I love the Shorter Catechism. This one has the scriptural references below where the questions are answered. They are numbered. Just FYI...

Shorter Catechism - Online

The first question is...What is the chief end of man? It then goes on to give the scripture that supports the answer.


Here is some information about the Westminster Shorter Catechism.
Thoughts on Westminster Shorter Catechism

This is what I object to. God is showing himself to be a self-centered egotist. Humans are independent entities, not a slave to a God. Why should God put people on earth for the purpose of glorifying him? Why does God feel he needs to be glorified? Would it not be nicer if God put humans on earth to live, love, learn and enjoy life without feeling to need to have to glorify him and face the consequences if we don't?

If God is pure love would it not make sense that God would accept all equally regardless of their beliefs? If God puts Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist and every other non-Christians believers on earth than I would think God doesn't care about our religious beliefs. I don't think he expects us to glorify him. I would think unconditional love would treat all beliefs the same.

However humans don't believe that. And that is what would separate humans from a true God. By making a God that demands people glorify him your making God a human. You make God a human by saying he is selfish, jealous and vengeful. You make God a human when you give him such a vile temper that he wants to rip fetsus out of womens bellies.



You make God a human when he tells you its good to kill everyone except the little virgin girls which can be given to the soldiers, as a reward I suppose.



That is not love or a God of love.

It really doesn't matter that "God is showing himself to be a self-centered egotist," because it's working just fine. Many have just turned off their common sense thinking abilities, and became puppets of poofism.

I think a lot of people are like mismi, they only see in the Bible what they like and ignore everything else. That goes back to the point that everyone creates and fashions a God to their liking. They make their God and pick parts from the Bible that supports their God. People who hate homosexuals will pick the hate homosexual passages. They have created a hate homosexual God. The same can be said for those who hate Jews, non-Christians or anything else.

They can also create a God of love and pretend or make excuses for the homicidal God in the Bible.

I think people have always done that no matter what religion they practice.

I asked my sister that very question, how can she discriminate against homosexuals, and she said "we love homosexuals, but do not approve of their sexuality."

Same thing; it's a dodge answer.

Or non-religion! :wink:

The proof of the puddin' is what type of action precipitates from the love/disapproval.

Dat's true; you either love people or you don't. It's like saying I love homosexuals, but don't want them to have the same moral/legal rights as everybody else based on "my" beliefs. .

You non-religious people go to their non religious book and make their non God like them?

No, that is not how most Christians see it - at least most of the ones I know. They can love someone even if they do things that are wrong. We all have tendencies. Some people overeat. It is how they are rigged - how they deal with things. It is a behavior that can be changed but it is so innate it is difficult to. Does it mean they give up and say "I just can't stop eating, it's just how I am made"? Actually some do. But it is considered wrong (gluttony) and even though some of us struggle with it (me for instance) does not mean my fellow believers hate me. Fat people are treated poorly all the time. They are made to feel unlovely and are many times left out and passed over. And yet - they are to be loved. What they are doing is just not considered a sin by most. But actually any type of inability to control yourself can become sin. Self-control is a gift of the Spirit and everyone has it. We just have to practice it.

Now if homosexuals are born the way they are - which many believe to be true, myself included, then just because they feel like having homosexual relationships does not mean they are suppose to. They can practice self-control and abstain. Just because a heterosexual feels like having sex with everything in sight does not mean he/she should. Self-control.

Smoking used to be acceptable everywhere. People were addicted. It is almost impossible to stop. But because it was accepted everywhere there was no question. For heaven's sake Andy Griffith smoked. But now, you can ask anyone who smokes how they feel others think of them and I bet they feel looked down upon. I bet they are treated pretty ugly by many - because the mores have changed. Smoking is no longer acceptable everywhere. And it is bad for you.

My Dad is a smoker. I love him. My best friend growing up is a homosexual - I love him. He and his friends crack me up. Now - if things get started toward talking about religion and marriage of homosexuals...I get hooted and pushed and made to feel like an ass. That is okay. Some of his friends openly disdain me and I understand that but Chuck knows that is my right...and he knows I love him. His dad is a pastor and we were in the same church for many years...he is not unfamiliar with the reasons why. I myself am an overeater (lost the weight though-and constantly have to control myself) my husband loves me. As a Christian it is my duty to love othes as I love myself. I should not look down or cast a stone...because I myself am full of problems and imperfections. So my job - though in some cases it is hard, is to do my best to love others in spite of what I don't like about them - whether it be something such as homosexuality - or even something as mundane such as they annoy the heck out of me. Is it hard? YES. I think most would say loving others that have issues they don't agree with or differences in opinions is difficult. But my faith in God is what gives me the ability to love even when I don't want to.

Okay...I know - I can't do anything short and to the point - another failing of mine...but ALL of that being said. The question is - what mores(moral attitude) and values do you follow? Societal mores change with time. As long as it is the norm then people don't really buck it...once someone steps outside and it becomes acceptable the mores change and then it becomes the norm. At one point chubby people were seen as beautiful (oh that that were today) but now not so much. Smokers were once everywhere. Not today. These things always change. Sometimes for the better...sometimes not so much. If it feels good do it cannot apply all the time. For the protection of society there must be laws - musts and must nots. We are human - given an inch many will take a mile. Guidelines are a necessity.

One of the issues with allowing homosexuals to marry is the breakdown of the family. The fact is - we don't know how it will affect society. There are those who believe that it is inevitable and is happening regardless. Maybe so...but that does not mean we throw up our hands and give in - not to me anyway. We made wearing seat belts a law. Why? To protect those who cannot protect themselves. Should it be a law? Not in my opinion. But it is there...to protect...and I understand that - and I comply because it is in my best interest and I am charged by the Bible to obey the laws of government. To me - a good reason for not allowing homosexual marriage is to protect the identity of marriage. And the argument can and has been made that if we sanction homosexuality that having children will become harder and that life as we know it will not be able to be sustained. Do I know that to be true? No. Can I say it would be the end of the world if homosexuals are allowed to marry? Maybe maybe not. We as the human race will find ways to survive the best we can - or become extinct or smaller in number as the consequences of our actions (pollution, overeating, smoking, etc...) become apparent. The fact is - we never really know what the outcome of our actions are...not until many years later. Most people just want to preserve what they know works. Not to mention uphold what their belief to be right is.

Now I know the forward thinkers think I am a lunatic and an antique and what I have said is a bunch of garbage. I accept this. I understand that my views seem to be unkind and exemptive. But that is not my goal at all. I know what I believe and though it does seem like hocus pocus to some ( I see where that can happen) being a Christian is in fact something that is the very fabric of my being. I cannot seem to change what I believe. Even through times of severe doubt and even criticism and unkindness from other professed believers I managed to wade my way back to my stance as a Christian. If someone believes something to be true - they don't sit on it and keep it to themselves they share it. So that is what I do - I share my understanding and hope that others will hear and believe as well. If not - it does not mean I criticize or disdain them. I still love them. Not always very well...but it is something I try to do to the best of my ability. I do not feel I should be defensive about my beliefs...they are what they are. And I can't change you - sure - I would love it if others believe with me - who doesn't feel that sense of companionship when others come to understand what you are saying? Not to mention it is a wonderful thing believing in someone greater than yourself. Knowing that my life is valuable and blessed by the God of the universe? Priceless. But I am not going to beat others over the head - or spit on them because they do not believe the same thing. Sometimes people are mean to me because of my public stand for what I believe...and it does hurt. I try to understand the reasons behind it. The fact is I know it will get worse before it gets better. It has been this way throughout history. Christians are either thriving or hiding. They are either in earnest or using their power erroneously. Human nature. It cannot seem to help exploit the good things some times. I hope that as time goes by people who are earnest in their beliefs will show it by their actions as well as their words.

a very exhausting explanation for how I see things...take it as you will...I am sorry it was so stinking long.

The problem here is a heterosexual can have sex and not be condemned by religion, if they do so in a married state. A homosexual can never have sex. They must abstain for life.

If a homosexual is born a homosexual then did God make them that way? Homosexuals have been around since the beginning of mankind, or at least there is no reason to suppose homosexuality is a recent event. Is it fair for a God to say you can never, ever have sex because you were born a homosexual?

I don't think so.

Actions consistent with delusion.

Homosexuality is common with many animals - not only humans. It's "natural."

Trying to equate eating with homosexuality is about as ignorant as it can get. Everybody has to eat to survive. Homosexuality is based on how the individual's brain is wired. Most humans must eat, and most are prone to have sex - hetero, homo, and/or bi. .

That kind of sounds like you think that homosexuality may be catching or something and will spread like wildfire. I have heard many bizarre reasons given as justification to enforce prejudices but that one ranks right near the top. You were just kidding right?

It's just one example of how the human brain can be taught to believe in anything including poofism.

You, and most of the Christians you know, may indeed love homosexuals, but that's not the point. You adopt a worldview (based entirely on hearsay) that requires you to discriminate against people for behavior that would otherwise be perfectly acceptable. You came to Jesus on your own free will - you weren't forced by logic to believe it. Yet, for whatever reason, you have dismissed alternative worldviews (possibly some that are also called "Christian") in favor of one that seeks to limit people's freedom for admittedly mysterious reasons.

You correctly point out that we don't know if homosexual families will have an overall positive or negative influence. However, you still want to restrict people's freedom -- generally seen as a negative influence in democratic societies.



All the evidence I have seen suggests that marriage did not start out as a religious practice. It seems to have been motivated more by politics and practicality. But I digress…

But not you. You do as your god commands, despite what your conscience might tell you.

Of course it seems like hocus pocus - that is exactly what you say it is! Keep trying.