Universal Health Care To Cover Abortions?

I agree, ebrown.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Miller is trying to take money out of my pocket to pay for her religious beliefs.

Paying for abortions is a hell of a lot less expensive than paying for unwanted pregnancies. A pro-life stance costs lots of taxpayer money to pay for children who are unwanted.

This is an idiotic thread.

The same thing could be said for those that are in favor of abortions.
They want to take money out of my pocket to pay for something I dont believe in.

What should be done is that abortion should be put on the ballot in all 50 states,and let the people of each state decide if they want abortion legal or not.
The federal govt has no legal right to decide on what is essentially a state matter.

Quote:

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

So,this is a matter that should have been left up to each state to decide.

The problem is,the pro-abortion camp refuses to allow that because they know how the vote would turn out.
Instead,they go to the courts and bypass the people.

I wonder why that is.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Paying for abortions is a hell of a lot less expensive than paying for unwanted pregnancies. A pro-life stance costs lots of taxpayer money to pay for children who are unwanted.

All of that may be the case, but I don't think it's relevant to the topic of universal health insurance paying for an abortion.

Once you have a statutory or mandatory health insurance, everybody will have to pay into it - no matter if it's a socialized, state run system or a system that "merely" makes private insurance mandatory (or any combination thereof, obviously).

And once you have to pay for it, I don't think there can be a reason to deny somebody an approved and legal procedure.

The approved part (as in "safe", and "with a high likelihood of achieving the desired result) would obviously set it apart from other procedures concerning reproductive therapies.

But the legal part is what allow a specific procedure in the first place. So if you don't want to have a universal health care system covering the costs of abortions, you simply have to change the laws accordingly.

But to have a mandatory insurance deny treatment based on a moral decision - even though the procedure is completely legal - now, that would really be unacceptable for me.

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Quote:

The same thing could be said for those that are in favor of abortions.
They want to take money out of my pocket to pay for something I dont believe in.

It doesn't matter to me whether you 'believe in' my medical procedure or not. It has nothing to do with you at all.

Silly. What if I didn't 'believe in' your chemo treatment? Ridiculous.

Cycloptichorn

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mysteryman wrote:

The same thing could be said for those that are in favor of abortions.
They want to take money out of my pocket to pay for something I dont believe in.

I agree with that. That's why it is regulated by laws. If you don't like the regulation, go and change the law. But don't deny people a perfectly legal procedure.

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old europe wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
The same thing could be said for those that are in favor of abortions.
They want to take money out of my pocket to pay for something I dont believe in.

I agree with that. That's why it is regulated by laws. If you don't like the regulation, go and change the law. But don't deny people a perfectly legal procedure.

I'm not denying anyone anything.
If you want to have an abortion,I will gladly drive you to the doctor.
Just dont ask me to pay for it.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

The same thing could be said for those that are in favor of abortions.
They want to take money out of my pocket to pay for something I dont believe in.

It doesn't matter to me whether you 'believe in' my medical procedure or not. It has nothing to do with you at all.

Silly. What if I didn't 'believe in' your chemo treatment? Ridiculous.

Cycloptichorn

You have the perfect right to not "believe" in it.
I am not asking you to pay for it.

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mysteryman wrote:

old europe wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
The same thing could be said for those that are in favor of abortions.
They want to take money out of my pocket to pay for something I dont believe in.

I agree with that. That's why it is regulated by laws. If you don't like the regulation, go and change the law. But don't deny people a perfectly legal procedure.

I'm not denying anyone anything.
If you want to have an abortion,I will gladly drive you to the doctor.
Just dont ask me to pay for it.

Of course you're denying something. See, if you have a universal health care system, then I will be paying my premiums and you will be paying your premiums. Depending on the system, the money goes (at least to a certain degree) into the same pool.

So, I think I have the right to get a procedure - that is both legal and approved - paid out of that pool. If you are saying I can't get that money, merely because you're paying into the same pool, then you are denying me this procedure.

If that is what you want, you can certainly work to get the laws changed and the procedure made illegal. Then, I would see no reason why the procedure should get paid out of the pool.

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mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

The same thing could be said for those that are in favor of abortions.
They want to take money out of my pocket to pay for something I dont believe in.

It doesn't matter to me whether you 'believe in' my medical procedure or not. It has nothing to do with you at all.

Silly. What if I didn't 'believe in' your chemo treatment? Ridiculous.

Cycloptichorn

You have the perfect right to not "believe" in it.
I am not asking you to pay for it.

But, under Universal Health care, I would pay for it; and you would pay for my procedure. The ethics of the matter are immaterial.

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

But, under Universal Health care, I would pay for it; and you would pay for my procedure. The ethics of the matter are immaterial.

Way more concise than I managed to say it.

Yes. That's the point.

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MysteryMan wrote:

I'm not denying anyone anything.
If you want to have an abortion,I will gladly drive you to the doctor.
Just dont ask me to pay for it.

I am asking you to pay for abortions. You are asking me to pay for unwanted pregnancies.

Do you want to look at the costs of each of these? From an economic standpoint, my standpoint is clearly better for taxpayers. You are demanding we spend more money.

I think I am being far more reasonable.

Other good ideas would be good research-based sex education and better access to birth control (if you guys would stop opposing each of these).

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Quote:

Good research-based sex education and better access to birth control would be good ideas to (if you guys would stop opposing each of these).

Who are "you guys"?
I dont oppose either one of them.

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I object on moral grounds to George Bush's war on Iraq and the thousands of innocent Iraqis it has killed, amongst other atrocities.

I object on moral grounds to paying for Dick Cheney to subvert the Constitution and deprive us all of rights guaranteed to us.

I object on moral grounds to the government paying billions of dollars to fatcat agribusinesses to not grow crops and donate millions to elect their pet politicians.

I object on moral grounds to government-supported abstinence-only sex education and faith-based social programs.

I don't get to opt out of paying my tax dollars to support these and other programs I regard as immoral.

So if someone doesn't support government health care because it provides LEGAL abortions, tough sh*t. I pay for your crap programs. You can pay for mine ("mine" in the general sense, at least, since I'm male, so I'm being altruistic here, since I'm not about to need the benefit).

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username wrote:

I object on moral grounds to George Bush's war on Iraq and the thousands of innocent Iraqis it has killed, amongst other atrocities.

Since he is the CinC,your objection is meaningless
I object on moral grounds to paying for Dick Cheney to subvert the Constitution and deprive us all of rights guaranteed to us.

List all of the rights you claim he has deprived you of.
Dont give generalities,be specific.

I object on moral grounds to the government paying billions of dollars to fatcat agribusinesses to not grow crops and donate millions to elect their pet politicians.

So do I.

I object on moral grounds to government-supported abstinence-only sex education and faith-based social programs.

So do I.

I don't get to opt out of paying my tax dollars to support these and other programs I regard as immoral.

Actually,you do.
You can refuse to pay taxes anytime you like.
Of course,you must be willing to accept the consequences of your actions.
Are you?

So if someone doesn't support government health care because it provides LEGAL abortions, tough sh*t. I pay for your crap programs. You can pay for mine ("mine" in the general sense, at least, since I'm male, so I'm being altruistic here, since I'm not about to need the benefit).

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I cannot believe nobody wants to talk about the racial issue here.

What happens when the stats on the procedure come back and they show that minorities are more likely to have an abortion? Then will the government be accused of genocide?

What next from the anti-life, anti-everything anti-Americans?

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You understand the concept of a universal healthcare competely, cjhsa. Perhaps you are the only one who understands it?

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cjhsa wrote:

I cannot believe nobody wants to talk about the racial issue here.

What happens when the stats on the procedure come back and they show that minorities are more likely to have an abortion? Then will the government be accused of genocide?

What next from the anti-life, anti-everything anti-Americans?

The "racial issue" is completely unimportant to the discussion at hand.
Thats why nobody wants to talk about it.

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mysteryman wrote:

cjhsa wrote:
I cannot believe nobody wants to talk about the racial issue here.

What happens when the stats on the procedure come back and they show that minorities are more likely to have an abortion? Then will the government be accused of genocide?

What next from the anti-life, anti-everything anti-Americans?

The "racial issue" is completely unimportant to the discussion at hand.
Thats why nobody wants to talk about it.

But it is extremely important and has been used as an argument both for and against publicly funded abortion since, well, forever.

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cjhsa wrote:

But it is extremely important and has been used as an argument both for and against publicly funded abortion since, well, forever.

But it hasn't been used here. Nobody wants to talk about it. If it's important to you, go and have a discussion with yourself...

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So typical of A2K to have political correctness cause people to stick their head in the sand.

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Universal Health Care To Cover Abortions?

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