0
   

Generation ChickenHawk

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 10:55 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
I, and others have been over this before.


Not successfully. You're probably used to that though, and have lowered your standards.

Cycloptichorn


Typical smart ass reply when you have nothing to add. It's been shown before and you are just to arrogant to admit you are wrong.


Link to it.

Funny line coming from the fellow who posted what you did as the second comment in the thread.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 10:57 am
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/07/23/911_generation/index.html

Quote:
The Weekly Standard's "9/11 Generation"

(updated below)

This week's issue of The Weekly Standard features a cover story by Hugh Hewitt blogger Dean Barnett. Entitled "The 9/11 Generation," it argues that America's current youthful generation is courageous and noble because it has answered the call of military service, in contrast to the cowardly Vietnam era baby boomers who chose protest instead. The article is being hailed in all of the predictable right-wing precincts, even though its reasoning highlights (unintentionally) exactly what is so corrupt, ignoble and deceitful about that political movement.

The crux of Barnett's homage to what he calls the "9/11 Generation" is expressed as follows:

In the 1960s, history called the Baby Boomers. They didn't answer the phone.

Confronted with a generation-defining conflict, the cold war, the Boomers -- those, at any rate, who came to be emblematic of their generation -- took the opposite path from their parents during World War II. Sadly, the excesses of Woodstock became the face of the Boomers' response to their moment of challenge. War protests where agitated youths derided American soldiers as baby-killers added no luster to their image.

Few of the leading lights of that generation joined the military. Most calculated how they could avoid military service, and their attitude rippled through the rest of the century. In the 1970s, '80s, and '90s, military service didn't occur to most young people as an option, let alone a duty.

But now, once again, history is calling. Fortunately, the present generation appears more reminiscent of their grandparents than their parents.

How does one even begin counting the myths laid on top of more myths on which these claims are based? To begin with, while Barnett contrasts two significant groups of the Vietnam era -- those who bravely volunteered for combat and/or who were drafted (Jim Webb and John McCain and Chuck Hagel and John Kerry) and those who protested the war -- he revealingly whitewashes from history the other major group, the most ignoble one, the one which happens to include virtually all of the individuals who lead Barnett's political movement: namely, those who claimed to support the war but did everything possible to evade military service, sending their fellow citizens off to die instead in a war they urged.

Most revealingly, Barnett condemns those who refused to fight because they opposed to war and chose instead to work against it, but ignores completely those who favored the war but sent others to fight and die in it. Barnett has to ignore this group. He has no choice. He cannot possibly criticize such individuals because this group includes the editors and writers of the magazine in which he is writing, his blogging boss, and virtually the entire leadership of the political movement which he follows.

Back in 2005, Digby comprehensively described all three "baby boomer" groups of the Vietnam era -- including the one Barnett understandably wants to delete from history -- as follows:

The [Vietnam] war provided two very distinct tribal pathways to manhood. One was to join "the revolution" which included the perk of having equally revolutionary women at their sides, freely joining in sexual as well as political adventure as part of the broader cultural revolution. (The 60's leftist got laid. A lot.) And he was also deeply engaged in the major issue of his age, the war in Vietnam, in a way that was not, at the time, seen as cowardly, but rather quite threatening. . . .

The other pathway to prove your manhood was to test your physical courage in battle. There was an actual bloody fight going on in Vietnam, after all. Plenty of young men volunteered and plenty more were drafted. . . .

And then there were the chickenhawks. They were neither part of the revolution nor did they take the obvious step of volunteering to fight the war they supported. Indeed, due to the draft, they allowed others to fight and die in their place despite the fact that they believed heartily that the best response to communism was to aggressively fight it "over there" so we wouldn't have to fight it here.

These were empty boys, unwilling to put themselves on the line at the moment of truth, yet they held the masculine virtues as the highest form of human experience and have portrayed themselves ever since as tough, uncompromising manly men while portraying liberals as weak and effeminate.

In this regard, the "9/11 Generation" is no different than its predecessor. One group is comprised of an extremely small percentage of young Americans who volunteer to fight in combat. Contrary to Barnett's attempt to hold them up as the symbolic prop of the "9/11 Generation," they actually represent a tiny percentage of Americans in this age group. A far larger percentage of young Americans fought in the Vietnam war than have fought in the 9/11 era.

Then there is the much large percentage of young Americans who vigorously oppose the 9/11-era warmongering. And finally there is the tragically sizable portion -- much larger than was true for the hated "baby boomer" generation -- characterized by that most contemptible attribute: vocal war cheerleading and a self-image of resoulte strength combined with a refusal to fight, even though the war missions they cheer on are suffering due to a lack of volunteers.

Contrary to the military heroism with which Barnett tries to cloak his political movement, it is this lowliest group -- Digby's "empty boys," the war cheerleaders who send others to fight in their wars -- which has led the country for the last six militarized years; which publishes the Weekly Standard and edits National Review and broadcasts the radio show of Barnett's boss; which comprises virtually the entirety of the leadership of the right-wing movement; and which has been responsible for the series of liberty-abridging policies implemented, the wars the U.S. has fought, and the new ones it threatens to fight, ever since the 9/11 attacks. The political movement of which Barnett is a part and off of which The Weekly Standard feeds is led by the very group of Vietnam-era baby boomers who failed "to answer the phone" and, worse, who hid under the bed while striking poses of warrior greatness.

* * * * *

It is no surprise, then, that the younger generation of the political movement led by the Vietnam-era chickenhawks largely emulates their cowardly and principle-free behavior. The defining attribute of the Weekly Standard strain of the "9/11 Generation" is the unprecedented ease with which one can cheer on endless wars without having to make even the most minimal sacrifices to sustain them. That is the unique and defining attribute of the Weekly Standard/Hugh-Hewitt strain of the 9/11 Generation.

Indeed, the "9/11 Generation" is uniquely able flamboyantly to perform one war dance after the next, while the war dancing is the only tangible evidence in one's life that a war even exists. The wars of past generations which the Weekly Standard's "9/11 Generation" endlessly exploits for political gain -- the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, World War II -- all entailed grave sacrifices made by all Americans, fundamental disruptions to the life of the nation. By contrast, the wars cheered on by the Weekly Standard's "9/11 Generation" entail no sacrifices for most of them. These wars are but bumper stickers to create a false Warrior identity and bestow political purpose onto lives which otherwise lack any. Whatever else that might be, noble is not it.

Attempts to define "generations" by ascribing generalized attributes is always a crude and misleading undertaking. But to extent that the war-supporting "9/11 Generation" of reality, rather than the fantasy in Barnett's mind, can be described, it is represented far more accurately by the "9/11 Generation" National Review pundit Jonah Goldberg, who authored the following psychologically warped and completely self-involved (though iconic) "justifications" for invading Iraq, followed by his explanation for why he wasn't part of the invading force:

Q: If you're a new sheriff in a really bad town, what's one of the smartest things you can do?

A: Smack the stuffing out of the nearest, biggest bad guy you can.

Q: If you're a new inmate in a rough prison, what's one of the smartest things you can do?

A: Pick a fight with the biggest, meanest cat you can ?- but make sure you can win.

Q: If you're a kid and you've had enough of the school bullies pants-ing you in the cafeteria, what's one of the smartest things you can do?

A: Punch one of them in the nose as hard as you can and then stand your ground. . . .

Q: If you're the leader of a peaceful and prosperous nation which serves as the last best hope of humanity and the backbone of international stability and a bunch of fanatics murder thousands of your people on your own soil, what's one of the smartest thing you can do?

A: Knock the crap out of Iraq. . . .

So how does all this, or the humble attempt at a history lesson of my last column, justify tearing down the Baghdad regime? Well, I've long been an admirer of, if not a full-fledged subscriber to, what I call the "Ledeen Doctrine" . . . . [H]ere is the bedrock tenet of the Ledeen Doctrine in more or less his own words: "Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business" . . . .

I know -- from painful experience -- that there are lots of people out there who subscribe to the bumper-sticker slogan "peace through strength is like virginity through f**king" . . . If peace cannot be attained through strength, I invite one of these bespectacled, purse-carrying, rice-paper-skinned, sandalistas to walk out into a prison yard. Let's see how receptive Tiny and Mad Dog are to entreaties over the futility of violence. "Sir, there's no need for fisticuffs, I would be glad to share my Snapple with you. Can't you see this sort of conflict is precisely what the multinational corporations want?"

International relations is much more like a prison yard than like a college seminar at Brown.

* * * * * * *

As for why my sorry a** isn't in the kill zone, lots of people think this is a searingly pertinent question. No answer I could give -- I'm 35 years old, my family couldn't afford the lost income, I have a baby daughter, my a** is, er, sorry, are a few -- ever seem to suffice.

The strain of the "9/11 Generation" of which Barnett is a part, which is represented by the Weekly Standard and National Review Agenda of Endless War and led by George Bush and Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich and Fred Thompson and Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney and Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, is captured perfectly by those passages, which reveal the core mentality of this movement:

We need to prove to the world how powerful and tough and strong we are by kicking ass and starting wars and putting our boots on the ground and getting our hands dirty and bombing and invading and fighting like the Real Warriors we are because Civilization is at Risk. And the way we should do that is by sending those people -- the ones way, way over there -- to go and fight and risk their lives in the wars I love.

I am a full-throated Supporter of the Epic War of Civilizations, but I can't fight in it, because my knee hurts and I need to collect advance checks from Regnery and I want to stay at home and wipe dribble from my baby's chin. But those people over there can and should fight. And between watching Star Trek on television and playing war video games, I will log off periodically to write articles and posts about how great these wars are and I, too, will therefore be strong and noble and resolute and brave.

That is the grotesque and principle-free face of the "9/11 Generation" which believes there is wisdom in the Weekly Standard and praises Barnett's article and, from a safe and sheltered distance, cheers on one American war after the next. They steadfastly refuse to "answer the phone" even as the wars they urge suffer from insufficient numbers of willing volunteers.

* * * * * *

Max Blumenthal recently released a new video -- which he could have called the "9/11 Generation" with far more justification than Barnett's hagiography -- containing interviews he conducted during a nationwide gathering of war-supporting (though not war-fighting) College Republicans. The video reveals Barnett's 9/11 Generation in its authentic, unmasked form.

Standing tall in the Sheraton lobby, these young political warriors of the 9/11 Generation speak excitedly of wars as they swagger around with their chests puffed out, boasting of the need to show courage and strength to our Terrorist Enemies. But when Blumenthal asks them whether they themselves plan to serve, they stutter and scamper and offer Goldberg-like excuses for why they need not and cannot fight in the Epic Civilization War and, more pathetically still, offer up a laundry list of petty, nagging ailments and Gingrich-like knee problems and Cheney-ite "other priorites" more petulant and self-pitying than one hears from the most cantankerous nursing home patient.

War is an inherently dangerous and reprehensible option, even in those extremely rare cases when it is just. But the worst of all worlds -- pragmatically, ethically, and in terms of character-building -- is to bestow the ability for a nation to embark on one war after the next while allowing its most enthusiastic boosters to evade entirely any responsibility, sacrifice or risk.

Yet that is the attribute which most shapes the "9/11 Generation," or at least the Weekly Standard's strain of it. And this should come as no surprise, since their most revered political leaders are drawn almost entirely from that sub-group of the Vietnam era which cowardly cheered on that war while sending others to die in it. One would expect nothing less from their most loyal followers and the most enthusiastic supporters of the new risk-free wars they launch.

UPDATE: Nothing is more fact-free than Weekly Standard war propaganda. This chart, from the December 2004 issue of the Population Bulletin (.pdf), reflects the percentage of the American population which, throughout the country's history, served in its armed forces. This, by itself, shows how factually false Barnett's entire claim is:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_MnYI3_FRbbQ/RqTNMgZJxaI/AAAAAAAAALo/xnjwINzKwKI/s400/military.png

http://bp0.blogger.com/_MnYI3_FRbbQ/RqTNSQZJxbI/AAAAAAAAALw/UhwNpyImI9s/s400/military2.png

There are currently 41.9 million Americans (.pdf) who are between the ages of 18-29 -- the "9/11 Generation." And according to the CIA, there are roughly 108 million Americans "fit for militiary service" -- 54 million males and 54 million females who, as the CIA defines it, are able-bodied and between the ages of 18-49.

But the total number (.pdf) on active duty in American's armed services in 2007 only totaled roughly 1.4 million. Thus, a meager 1% of the total number of Americans fit for military service -- and less than 1/3 of 1% of the total number of Americans -- actually serve in the armed forces.

Moreover, roughly 60% (.pdf) of those in the armed forces are in the 18-29 age group, which means that 800,000 out of the 41 million Americans in this 9/11 Generation -- i.e., 2% -- have "answered the call" by volunteering to fight in the Epic War of Civilization against the Existential Islamofascism Threat. Thus, 98% of the "9/11 Generation" in America refuses to serve. It is a redundancy to say so, but nonetheless, the Weekly Standard cover story is a fraud.


And this is how Chickenhawks try and make themselves feel better about the situation: false bravado and pumping up of the 'younger generation,' who hasn't given but a tiny percent of the participation of former wars.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 11:55 am
This "hawk" risked his health and at times his life building weaponry for use by our military. For this I am labeled a "chickenhawk" by the libtards of A2K...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 11:57 am
cjhsa wrote:
This "hawk" risked his health and at times his life building weaponry for use by our military. For this I am labeled a "chickenhawk" by the libtards of A2K...


Yup, too much of a coward to go actually use the guns you love so much.

Your excuses are immaterial. You risked your life to make money, just like any other job. You didn't do it out of the goodness of your heart or any sense of sacrifice. Go peddle that weak **** elsewhere.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 12:55 pm
Quote:
In the 1960s, history called the Baby Boomers. They didn't answer the phone.


I find this so incredibly insulting. Not to me -- I wasn't born yet -- but to all those people who were drafted and died fighting or were permanently disabled mentally or physically. History didn't call the Baby Boomers. History went to their houses and dragged them out of bed.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 03:41 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
This "hawk" risked his health and at times his life building weaponry for use by our military. For this I am labeled a "chickenhawk" by the libtards of A2K...


Yup, too much of a coward to go actually use the guns you love so much.

Your excuses are immaterial. You risked your life to make money, just like any other job. You didn't do it out of the goodness of your heart or any sense of sacrifice. Go peddle that weak **** elsewhere.

Cycloptichorn


WTF would I be making excuses for? I came of age in the late '70s and early '80s. We weren't fighting any war other than the cold war, and I went into battle against that. In so doing, the weapons we produced also made for a resounding victory in the Gulf War. Why 41 never went into Bagdhad is beyond me, then eight years of douchebag Bill doing nothing but letting Saddam shoot at our planes... During which time they dismantled and sold off most of their WMD programs and purchased conventional weapons which they hid all over the place and are now using to kill our troops...

43 is 100% correct to be in Iraq, but it's truly unfortunate he had to try to clean up after the retard from Arkansas...

Liberals suck and their pacifist thinking gets more and more people killed. Innocents as well as service men and women.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 03:46 pm
Quote:
Why 41 never went into Bagdhad is beyond me


Haven't been paying attention for five solid years now, I see.

He didn't invade Bagdhad b/c he didn't want to deal with the mess. Which is exactly what we are doing right now.

You didn't go into battle against anything, so please stop saying that. I don't care if you worked on a plane or bombs or something. It isn't even close to the same thing.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 03:55 pm
I did what I could D-A.

We all fight our own battles. I fight the good fight here every day at A2K. Trying desperately to contain political correctness and liberal, socialist, wanna-be-commies such as yourself. The truth is so obvious, yet you continue to deny that truth and spew your lies. I can't just give it a pass.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 04:03 pm
cjhsa wrote:
I did what I could D-A.

We all fight our own battles. I fight the good fight here every day at A2K. Trying desperately to contain political correctness and liberal, socialist, wanna-be-commies such as yourself. The truth is so obvious, yet you continue to deny that truth and spew your lies. I can't just give it a pass.


The fact that you equate posting on a forum with 'fighting a battle' is ridiculous. You aren't fighting ****. You're sitting in front of a keyboard, in perfect safety, typing away. It's insulting to the troops who are being shot at and blown up for you to say such a thing. Demeaning to their cause.

Though you certainly aren't the only one; there's a veritable legion of you in the 101st Keyboard Kommandos... bravely stopping Islamofascism one word at a time. You pretend you're something more then you actually are, which is just another person who talks a much bigger game then he walks.

It isn't surprising, given the gun fascination that you have; it's pretty obvious that fake toughness has supplanted actual toughness for those like yourself. From a psychological point of view, it's predictable, really.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 04:06 pm
Ok dips--t, what do you do for a living? How do you support the troops and your country?

There's nothing wrong with working a keyboard. I'm in it for hearts and minds. People need to understand that you've fallen for the big lie. You are an entitlement freak. Admit it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 04:12 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Ok dips--t, what do you do for a living? How do you support the troops and your country?

There's nothing wrong with working a keyboard. I'm in it for hearts and minds. People need to understand that you've fallen for the big lie. You are an entitlement freak. Admit it.


You really win the 'hearts and minds' with your constant snark and insults, yaknow? Once again, not surprising to hear you say such a thing; you are as clueless about how to go about actually doing such a thing as those who are doing the same thing in the Middle East.

The armed forces would not accept someone with a strong visual impairment such as mine, I found out. I work behind a keyboard as well. The difference is, I don't act as if it makes me a tough guy, like you do. I don't pretend that I'm fighting anything. I don't pump myself up with false bravado. That's what makes me a regular guy, and you, well, I don't really need to go on, do I?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 04:14 pm
I'm so sorry you shot your eye out with that BB gun....

So, you still haven't told us what you do...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 04:16 pm
My mother always did warn me.

I work in a Law School in California. I know, I know - it's not a military job or even one which supports the military. But, then again, I don't present myself as a militaristic, faux-tough douchebag like you do.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 06:51 pm
Cyclo,
I must point something out to you.
That long cut and paste you did mentioned the number of people in the US military.

If you notice,it specified ACTIVE DUTY.
That is not a fair statement,because it ignored the reservesd,the national guard,and the individual ready reserves.
When you add the NG and the reserves alone,you get a whole different number...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States#Foreign_relations_and_military

Quote:
The United States Department of Defense administers the armed forces, including the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, and the Air Force. The Coast Guard falls under the jurisdiction of the Department of Homeland Security in peacetime and the Department of the Navy in times of war. In 2005, the military had 1.38 million personnel on active duty,[45] along with several hundred thousand each in the Reserves and the National Guard for a total of 2.3 million troops.


The individual ready reserve comprises every person that is a veteran and able to be recalled.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/usar-irr.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Ready_Reserve

Now,when you add the IRR into the nnumbers,it goes up even more.
The link you posted seemed to ignore that.
I wonder why.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 07:07 pm
The fact that those who have already served, can be called up at any time, doesn't equate to active service, sorry.

And even if it does, you're talking about 1% vs. .5% of the population. Big f*cking whoop. Doesn't even come close to the huge participation in WW2, WW1.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 07:18 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
My mother always did warn me.

I work in a Law School in California. I know, I know - it's not a military job or even one which supports the military. But, then again, I don't present myself as a militaristic, faux-tough douchebag like you do.

Cycloptichorn


Kill all the lawyers.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 08:53 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Max Blumenthal goes to the Young Republicans convention in DC, and asks why none of them - who strongly support the WoT and the War in Iraq - have bothered to sign up and serve in the armed forces....They are too cowardly to put their ass on the line, but continually advocate that others do so.

Cycloptichorn



Attacking an argument by attacking the arguer is invalid. Even if you can prove both your thesis about his faults, and that the poster is also a serial killer, you haven't taken the first step towards disproving his argument. Are you trying to prove his words incorrect or are you just trying to appear to win?

Poster 1: A = B, B = C, therefore A = C.
Poster 2: Do you still beat your wife?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 09:26 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Max Blumenthal goes to the Young Republicans convention in DC, and asks why none of them - who strongly support the WoT and the War in Iraq - have bothered to sign up and serve in the armed forces....They are too cowardly to put their ass on the line, but continually advocate that others do so.

Cycloptichorn



Attacking an argument by attacking the arguer is invalid. Even if you can prove both your thesis about his faults, and that the poster is also a serial killer, you haven't taken the first step towards disproving his argument. Are you trying to prove his words incorrect or are you just trying to appear to win?

Poster 1: A = B, B = C, therefore A = C.
Poster 2: Do you still beat your wife?


That's a non-sequitur.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jul, 2007 04:49 am
cjhsa wrote:
I did what I could D-A.

We all fight our own battles. I fight the good fight here every day at A2K. Trying desperately to contain political correctness and liberal, socialist, wanna-be-commies such as yourself. The truth is so obvious, yet you continue to deny that truth and spew your lies. I can't just give it a pass.


Fighting Keyboardist 101st LOL
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jul, 2007 05:58 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
I did what I could D-A.

We all fight our own battles. I fight the good fight here every day at A2K. Trying desperately to contain political correctness and liberal, socialist, wanna-be-commies such as yourself. The truth is so obvious, yet you continue to deny that truth and spew your lies. I can't just give it a pass.


Fighting Keyboardist 101st LOL


I think you might be surprised at what the government does in this realm. Me, I'm a private contractor, a Blackqwerty.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2026 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 03/10/2026 at 05:56:59