14
   

What is Real Science?

 
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 08:40 pm
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:

Reality is an object with many sides, in a lifetime we may have the luxury of seeing more than one, maybe several sides, but you will never see them all, alas! true reality in its entirety cannot be known


Maybe it can.. you just might need to zoom out and use a mirror? Anything can be done given the right creativity and willingness to put in the effort to find a solution.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 02:10 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
. . . Reality is always true and always absolute. You can skip calling it true reality or absolute reality...its redundant. The word reality already implies both things. . .
Well stated.
I wonder if folks, realizing they might never discern all reality, confuse it by using the redundant 'true'
0 Replies
 
Razzleg
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 12:57 am
@Krumple,
ok, i've now read the above 5 pages

Krumple wrote:

Razzleg wrote:

i've only scanned the last 5 pages, but in that brief scan i haven't seen a mention of the word of "experiment"! Real science rests on EXPERIMENT!

Are all of you thread contributors just brains-in-jars? Is the concept of experiment beyond your kin? What do you foolosphers even think you're discussing re: science if you ignore the relevance of experiments in relation to hypothesis, observation, and theory? i think the "concept" of "science" discussed here isn't scientific, at all.

"Real", "true", "objective", "necessary", "perception", "concept"...science-wise what do you even think you are talking about?

It is hard to imagine a less scientific discussion regarding science than this one.


You must of missed my post on the previous page then. So perhaps get better at scanning over posts? Because I did mention experimentation.


No, you didn't:

Krumple wrote:

neologist wrote:

Real science - True reality
What the heck is everyone talking about?
Is there a fake science? What is it?
Is there false reality, as in "It is as it isn't"?


Science is simple. Not sure why people think they need to make it complex.

Science is a systematic method of examining reality and comparing it with questions.

Hypothesis
Compute the consequences of the hypothesis.
Test the hypothesis and compare with reality.
If they conflict with each other then it is wrong.

The only weakness in this is having a limits amount of consequences, if you do not verify enough consequences then you could have made a mistake. But consequences are really only available according to the data that you currently have. If additional data arrives at a later time, this new data could create a consequence that invalidates the conclusion. Also if the conclusion of the experiment can not be compared with reality then it can't be verified.

This is why science advances and is humble to it's past claims. Nothing can be validated as a definite because there is always a chance you will collect some data later that invalidates it and therefore the conclusion needs to be updated.


You didn't mention "experiment" anywhere in that post...and you never qualified the nature of your test, but the method you describe in your post certainly doesn't meet it's parameters...

Razzleg wrote:
i think the "concept" of "science" discussed here isn't scientific, all. . .


neologist wrote:

Perhaps that was not the OP's intent.


No?...

neologist wrote:

Real science - True reality
What the heck is everyone talking about?
Is there a fake science? What is it?
Is there false reality, as in "It is as it isn't"?


Ok...i guess the above post wasn't about science or scientific method...

JLNobody wrote:

Razzleg, your points are well taken, but we must keep in mind that when we discuss the "nature" of Science we are not doing science--not experimenting or testing falsifiable hypotheses--we are doing philosophy of science.
I love "foolosophy"--very playful.


Thank you for your indulgence. and i wish that i could take credit for "foolosophy". i didn't come up with it. However, while we may be discussing the philosophy of science, we cannot discount the fact that doing science is a participatory mode, and that to regard it as observation sans experiment is to misjudge it...
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 08:21 am
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/10421373_1150491468309612_1528900935521448777_n.jpg
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 11:06 am
@FBM,
So, why would anyone mention the phrase 'real science'?
Is some science not 'real'?

Laughing
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 11:41 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

So, why would anyone mention the phrase 'real science'?
Is some science not 'real'?

Laughing


pseudoscience and christian science are not "real science".
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 12:35 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:
pseudoscience and christian science are not "real science".
Or, simply not 'science'.
FBM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 08:44 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

So, why would anyone mention the phrase 'real science'?
Is some science not 'real'?

Laughing


Linguistically, the "real" is an example of either contrastive or prosodic stress, depending on the context. As a rhetorical element, it shouldn't be taken to have literal meaning.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2015 05:26 am
I am a simple kind of guy, I'm no genius and certainly no scientist.
I guess I would hazard that science was the best interpretation of evidence provided, evidence being tested according to existing methods and results agreed upon via peer review.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2015 09:36 am
"Science" should not require an adjective other than, perhaps, to designate the discipline in which it is being applied, and that only because acceptable correlations vary between fields.
0 Replies
 
abdan123
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2015 09:43 am
@Frank Apisa,

<a href='http://www.doa-qunut.com/' title='title link' rel='nofollow'> Doa Qunut</a>
0 Replies
 
Razzleg
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2015 03:01 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Krumple wrote:
pseudoscience and christian science are not "real science".
Or, simply not 'science'.



how would either of you know the difference?

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Aren't you bright eh ? A beacon of shining light...


Yep! Thanks!
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2015 03:05 am
The appearance of pseudosciences is probably what sparked the use of the phrase "real science" in the first place.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2015 04:20 am
@FBM,
You're probably right there. Theology debates are oft full of skewered logic and misrepresentation of data on both sides. "real science" is likely not so much about what is "real" rather than what is not verifiably false.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2015 04:30 am
@Smileyrius,
Seems to me the pseudoscience crowd are the hangers-on of legitimate researchers. Trying to take on the mantle of legitimacy by adopting some of their jargon, but ultimately wedded to blind faith. Problem is, many of us non-scientists are familiar enough with the approach that, even though we're not scientists, we can easily enough sniff out the charlatans.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2015 06:28 am
Neo has started this false hare because he's intelligent enough to know that his belief system is superstitious mumbo-jumbo, but he is unwilling to face up to that knowledge.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2015 07:33 am
@Setanta,
How do you know his intentions? Is that a real scientific insight of yours?

I haven't followed all the nuances of this discussion, but I do know there is stuff out there in the public discorse, on both sides of the debate that appears to be the real subtext in this dialogue, that is labelled as science, but which involves very significant departures from the accepted norms for verifiable, fact-based scientific investigation and therorizing. How one labels the two is not of much interest to me, but one could indeed call them real or false science or real and defective or any number of other combinations, The point is that rational distinctions can indeed be made in specific cases. Broad generalizations become far more difficult and one can argue about them endlessly.

Human history and indeed the history of science itself reveals many occasions on which individual scientists and groups of them advocated many things in a most "unscientific" way, based on currently accepted norms. Nothing remarkable there in that scientists are human beings and subject to the frailties and errors that afflict us all. It's also possible that many of these things involved questions that cannot definately be answered by science, either then, now, or, perhaps in some cases, ever.

Lord Kelvin (Willian Thompson) famously denounced the early Scottish gerologists who, in the mid 19th century, first speculaterd that, based on their fossil findings, the earth was billions of years old, and not the many thousands then assumed. His reasoning (he was a thermodynamicist) that the sun could not possibly sustain its energy for such a period by any (then) known source. His fault (and error) was that, even then, enough was known to doubt that Newtonian physics was a lasting and complete description of the universe.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2015 09:29 am
@Setanta,
I would say I am as well established in the physical sciences as any on a2k. And one intent of my OP is to stimulate critical thought.

Have I failed?
north
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2015 02:53 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

I would say I am as well established in the physical sciences as any on a2k. And one intent of my OP is to stimulate critical thought.

Have I failed?


No

Failer would to never have courage to put forth the thread.

Anyway

Real science is Exploration into the ology with courage and an Open Mind and communicating this overtly.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2015 02:59 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

I would say I am as well established in the physical sciences as any on a2k. And one intent of my OP is to stimulate critical thought.

Have I failed?


Just my 2p's worth: No, I wouldn't say that you've failed. I enjoy discussing things with you, whether we ultimately agree or not. The process of exchanging ideas and understandings encourages self-examination, and I'm big on that.

One hair to split, though: I think farmerman has you on the "well established in the physical sciences" bit. And me, for that matter.
 

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