georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 04:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Anybody notice that a criticism of Clinton is hurting the Dems' chance of winning, but criticism of Sanders is just common sense?


It does seem unfair, but for a while it appeared that it might be true. Since then Hillary's perceived weaknesses as a candidate appear to have grown, while enthusiasm for Bernie appears to have risen with it.

That said I still have very serious doubts about Berniue's electability, doubts that it appears others share as well. That's what all the earlier talk about a Biden candidacy and more recently one by Bloomberg was all about.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 04:42 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I wouldn't admit something is wrong until I know it is. If Bill Clinton can dramatically increase incarceration rates with a law, how much can opposing laws plus other changes in infrastructure - which are designed to benefit the demographic with the highest incarceration rates - reduce the number?

A thinking man who has brooded over this most of his life thinks he knows.


Yeah, or he just fucked up like the rest of humanity does once in a while.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 05:21 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

All that excerpt does is reiterate that Bernie made an impossible promise.


Possibly just one of many. The odds of getting a congress that would vote the added entitlements and taxes he proposes appear vanishingly small.

Government subsidies for almost anything have three immediate effects;
1. The creation of a well organized political lobby dedicated to the preservation of the subsidy.
2. The end of any incentive for improving the efficient delivery of the product or service or its quality.
3. Increases in the price of the product or service subsidized.

We've already seen bubbles in the housing market resulting from the infusion of large quantities of government guaranteed capital. College tuition costs have risen fast along with government secured college tuition loans which will burden graduates for a long time. Corn based ethanol is now well-known to deliver no reduction in carbon emissions at all. However, the ethanol mixed in the fuel shortens the lives of the engines, and the corn demand raises food prices. Still the subsidies and mandates for its use persist.

Bernie's programs are unlikley to be enacted, but if implemented would have analogous effects.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 06:55 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

The odds of getting a congress that would vote the added entitlements and taxes he proposes appear vanishingly small.


You say that like it might be a negative for Bernie.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 07:02 pm
@roger,
I say it because it is obviously true. What effect it has on Senator Sanders campaign is not a concern of mine.

Sanders ia arguing for a sweeeping change in our government, our policies and our politicsd. He has been remarkably successful so far, certainly beating the expectations of conventional wisdom. Will it continue enough to achieve his goals? I think not.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 07:03 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Possibly just one of many.


He does talk a lot of hyper idealistic stuff, but this is the only time that I know of where he prefaced the 'chicken in every pot' rhetoric with the words "This is my promise". And I think it's reasonable to hold anyone to account for things that they promise to do.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 07:19 pm
@snood,
I guess I agree. Sanders is rather explicitly calling for sweeping change including in the Congress, so I suppose that would be his response to any criticism of thre likelihood of enactment of his proposals. We can fault it but those standards would catch most other candidates as well, on this or other issues.

Frankly I think that the current campaigning fashion for " My plan calls for.... " brings a significant degree of unrealism into our political debates. We are a democracy, with contending political parties and three independent branches of government, specifically designed to limit each other. Any elected president will have to forge comnpromises with his/her political opposition in the enactment of any successful policy. I would rather hear from each of them what are their values and priorities than promises about what they might do that few will be able to keep.

The folly of the ineptly written ACA was precisely in the unilateral character of its enactment - no input from the political opposition to either make it more palatible or even to remove the obvious flaws in the drafting of this highly complex and little understood legislation. If you won't tolerate criticism you are left with no remedy for your own follies.

It turns out that Prof. Jobathan Gruber wasn't as smart as he thought. Most of the Obamacare exchanges have gone or are going bankrupt, and the costs of health insurance for those who poay for it has grown significantly. State Medicaid rolls have grown enormously and we shall see soon enough what effect that has on state budgets.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 07:30 pm
@snood,
Did you vote for Obama, Snood?

What you are saying about "Saint Bernie" is exactly what detractors said about "Obama the messiah".

I love irony.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 02:02 am
@snood,
Quote:
Like making promises so big that he must know they aren't possible. Like promising he'll end the US being #1 in imprisoned people. If Hillary said that, I bet Bernie's followers would call it a lie.

Like promissing to close Gitmo?

I prefer a candidate who will try to change things to one who will not try. Call me utopian.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 06:56 am
Clyburn could sway the election, and I know both Clintons are in his ear. Hope MLK pays him a visit tonight.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 07:53 am
@Olivier5,
I don't believe you know anything about the US government works. If it was truly up to President Obama, it would have been closed.

Senate Blocks One Of The Last Pathways To Closing Guantanamo

There are a lot of hurdles, maybe even constitutionally, of using an executive action to closing Gitmo, however, he may yet still do it closer to the end of his term. He has been trying to close it since his first day in office with congress. Watching Obama's term be so blocked by republicans (in this case democrats as well) has made me much more cynical of how government works.

Why an Obama Executive Action Closing Gitmo Might Be Tough to Stop
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 01:07 pm
@revelette2,
Yes but by your argument, Obama should have known that his promise to close Gitmo was unrealistic given likely senate opposition...
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 01:44 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Like promissing to close Gitmo?
I prefer a candidate who will try to change things to one who will not try. Call me utopian.

Is transferring the detainees to an identical facility on US soil truly change?

Anyway, Mr. Obama did try. The taxpayers didn't want to pay to build an identical facility just so Mr. Obama could move people around for no reason.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 03:23 pm
@Olivier5,
I do not know too many people who would have bet McConnell and the rest of those people would have held a meeting and decided the only duty they had was to see that Obama didn't have a second term by saying no to every proposal he brings up. It was unprecedented therefore unpredictable. Besides on closing gitmo, it wasn't only republicans who held it up, but enough democrats too. (with friends like these...)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 03:40 pm
@revelette2,
That the American public refuse to see the gridlock created by the republicans is our own fault. How many republicans approve of the gridlock in congress?
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 03:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I don't know. I doubt all Republicans are gridlock fans.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 05:03 pm
@ossobuco,
I don't think so either🙃, but there aren't any descent.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 05:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Who knows, there may be a quiet majority.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2016 08:23 pm
@Olivier5,
He did try but a republican congress wouldent let him.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 11:02 am
@RABEL222,
Likewise, Bernie will try, and we'll see what he can get done as a result. Let's not stop trying just because we expect difficulties...

One need not hope in order to undertake, nor succeed in order to persevere.
-- Guillaume the Taciturn
0 Replies
 
 

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