24
   

Congratulations, House Republicans!

 
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 01:41 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Sorry but your meme is wrong. Bush 43 never did an EO on immigration.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 01:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Heave a read Frank:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3229018/posts
Quote:
Nice try.

Every time President Obama does something, or is about to do something, that has conservatives up in arms - especially if the protest is based on abuse of his constitutional authority - you can count on the left doing one thing: Finding a supposed example of a past Republican president or presidents doing the exact same thing.

Oh, I guess it was OK when a Republican did it!

They've been all over that argument the last couple of days with Obama's soon-to-be-announced executive order granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens, claiming that both Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush did the exact same thing. This argument is just clever enough that people who don't really understand the issue or don't really know the history might buy it.

But when you really look into it, as Hans von Spakovsky did today for the Daily Signal, you'll find that the liberals' claim here is a complete load of crap:

In 1986, Congress passed the Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA), which provided a general amnesty to almost three million illegal immigrants. According to the Associated Press, Reagan acted unilaterally when his Immigration and Naturalization Service commissioner “announced that minor children of parents granted amnesty by [IRCA] would get protection from deportation.” In fact, in 1987 former Attorney General Ed Meese issued a memorandum allowing the INS to defer deportation where “compelling or humanitarian factors existed” for children of illegal immigrants who had been granted amnesty and, in essence, given green cards and put on a path towards being “naturalized” as citizens. In announcing this policy, Reagan was not defying Congress, but rather carrying out the general intent of Congress which had just passed a blanket amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants.

As the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services website itself explains, the children of individuals who become citizens through naturalization have a relatively easy process for also becoming naturalized citizens to avoid breaking up families. And as Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies points out, the INS was, as a practical matter, going to “look the other way under certain circumstances with regard to minor children both of whose parents received amnesty.” This was well within the authority delegated to the executive branch and a “legitimate exercise of prosecutorial discretion.”

The Bush administration relaxed these technical requirements under a “Family Fairness” policy to defer deportation of the spouses and children of illegal immigrants who were allowed to stay in this country and seek naturalization through the IRCA amnesty. Shortly thereafter, Bush worked with Congress to pass the Immigration Act of 1990, which made these protections permanent. Significantly, the Bush policy and the 1990 Act affected only a small number of immigrants–about 180,000 people –in comparison to Obama’s past (his 2012 implementation of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival program) and anticipated unilateral actions that will affect millions of immigrants.

Some supporters of Obama’s unilateral actions on immigration have also pointed to other actions by past presidents that allowed immigrants such as Afghans and Nicaraguans to stay in the U.S. But those limited actions were based on very special circumstances such as the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, the Communist-driven civil war in Nicaragua or the Chinese massacre of students in Tiananmen Square that led Bush to granted deferred departure to threatened Chinese nationals.

What Obama is getting ready to do has nothing at all in common with what Reagan or Bush did. Both of these past Republican presidents made fairly run-of-the-mill administrative decisions on the implementation of bills Congress had passed, and that they had signed. That is entirely uncontroversial, and would be so if Obama did it too.

What Obama is proposing to do here is to act action on his own specifically because Congress has not given him authorization to act. That is about as unconstitutional as a thing can be, and it bears no similarity to the examples liberals are trying to put forward as its equivalent.

Nice job on von Spakovsky's part doing the work to expose the fraud that is this argument.

Of course, the most galling thing about all this is that, if Obama really wants immigration reform, he could wait until the new Congress is sworn in and then work with them on it. But he doesn't want that because the new Republican Congress is not going to pass a bill that's designed solely to serve the electoral objectives of Democrats. So suddenly, after getting nothing out of Congress on this score for six years, he suddenly has to act now because it's a huge emergency.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 01:50 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Heave a read Frank:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3229018/posts
Quote:
Nice try.

Every time President Obama does something, or is about to do something, that has conservatives up in arms - especially if the protest is based on abuse of his constitutional authority - you can count on the left doing one thing: Finding a supposed example of a past Republican president or presidents doing the exact same thing.

Oh, I guess it was OK when a Republican did it!

They've been all over that argument the last couple of days with Obama's soon-to-be-announced executive order granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens, claiming that both Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush did the exact same thing. This argument is just clever enough that people who don't really understand the issue or don't really know the history might buy it.

But when you really look into it, as Hans von Spakovsky did today for the Daily Signal, you'll find that the liberals' claim here is a complete load of crap:

In 1986, Congress passed the Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA), which provided a general amnesty to almost three million illegal immigrants. According to the Associated Press, Reagan acted unilaterally when his Immigration and Naturalization Service commissioner “announced that minor children of parents granted amnesty by [IRCA] would get protection from deportation.” In fact, in 1987 former Attorney General Ed Meese issued a memorandum allowing the INS to defer deportation where “compelling or humanitarian factors existed” for children of illegal immigrants who had been granted amnesty and, in essence, given green cards and put on a path towards being “naturalized” as citizens. In announcing this policy, Reagan was not defying Congress, but rather carrying out the general intent of Congress which had just passed a blanket amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants.

As the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services website itself explains, the children of individuals who become citizens through naturalization have a relatively easy process for also becoming naturalized citizens to avoid breaking up families. And as Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies points out, the INS was, as a practical matter, going to “look the other way under certain circumstances with regard to minor children both of whose parents received amnesty.” This was well within the authority delegated to the executive branch and a “legitimate exercise of prosecutorial discretion.”

The Bush administration relaxed these technical requirements under a “Family Fairness” policy to defer deportation of the spouses and children of illegal immigrants who were allowed to stay in this country and seek naturalization through the IRCA amnesty. Shortly thereafter, Bush worked with Congress to pass the Immigration Act of 1990, which made these protections permanent. Significantly, the Bush policy and the 1990 Act affected only a small number of immigrants–about 180,000 people –in comparison to Obama’s past (his 2012 implementation of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival program) and anticipated unilateral actions that will affect millions of immigrants.

Some supporters of Obama’s unilateral actions on immigration have also pointed to other actions by past presidents that allowed immigrants such as Afghans and Nicaraguans to stay in the U.S. But those limited actions were based on very special circumstances such as the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, the Communist-driven civil war in Nicaragua or the Chinese massacre of students in Tiananmen Square that led Bush to granted deferred departure to threatened Chinese nationals.

What Obama is getting ready to do has nothing at all in common with what Reagan or Bush did. Both of these past Republican presidents made fairly run-of-the-mill administrative decisions on the implementation of bills Congress had passed, and that they had signed. That is entirely uncontroversial, and would be so if Obama did it too.

What Obama is proposing to do here is to act action on his own specifically because Congress has not given him authorization to act. That is about as unconstitutional as a thing can be, and it bears no similarity to the examples liberals are trying to put forward as its equivalent.

Nice job on von Spakovsky's part doing the work to expose the fraud that is this argument.

Of course, the most galling thing about all this is that, if Obama really wants immigration reform, he could wait until the new Congress is sworn in and then work with them on it. But he doesn't want that because the new Republican Congress is not going to pass a bill that's designed solely to serve the electoral objectives of Democrats. So suddenly, after getting nothing out of Congress on this score for six years, he suddenly has to act now because it's a huge emergency.



Aha...I see what our problem is here.

You think you are the ONLY conservative trying to put lipstick on this particular pig.

Ain't gonna work, Baldimo...you guys have overused your indignation.


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_vthJfN_M6lox8txdlx9yQeI7HGITiF6LnMfcE0UAPyewOCc2kQ


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpUfS2DytqvneS7fS4rrwG8v0LeBJ3ku4natJbXwqanFKOGVz_Psi7XQ

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTSn2dmmN3aQVxzuhR_ZHLYHTYblWRqb8NkVyBlPhFMtMS-LSY
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 01:53 pm
@Frank Apisa,
No, you have over stretched your excuse. It's weak and that's why you have no response. That's why no one on the left has a response except for false reasons and excuse's.

No if you guys would just admit that Obama did it because he wanted to do it, then that would be a different story. That isn't the case.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 01:53 pm
@parados,
Quote:
You can't deport US Citizens under the law.


Tell that to Bob.
http://www.doomjunkie.com/images/smilies/shill.jpeg
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:23 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

No, you have over stretched your excuse. It's weak and that's why you have no response. That's why no one on the left has a response except for false reasons and excuse's.

No if you guys would just admit that Obama did it because he wanted to do it, then that would be a different story. That isn't the case.



Listening to you guys has been an eye opener for me, Baldimo. I remember how I sometimes spoke when George W. was sitting in the oval office taking instructions from Dick Cheney.

I stopped it at some point, because even I could see how out of line I was.

I like ya, Dude...but you are so far off base the pitcher could walk over and tag you rather than throw to one of the basemen.

Enjoy it for as long as you can.

Maybe the next eight years you can spend telling us why Hillary is not doing what all Republican presidents have done.

There is no stretching going on...and no weakness to the arguments that you guys are simply spewing bile to spew bile.

But...you have decided to be blind to it...and there is no one so blind as a person who will not see.

coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Maybe the next eight years you can spend telling us why Hillary


Talk about putting lipstick on a pig......
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:31 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
No if you guys would just admit that Obama did it because he wanted to do it, then that would be a different story. That isn't the case.


That too.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:32 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Thank you confirming that you can't defend what Obama has done with his EO. I figured that you wouldn't be able to, even when provided with proof of how wrong you were. How can you relate what Obama did to actions taken by Reagan? What recent law on immigration did Obama amend with his EO?

Head in the sand Frank. That's what I like about you.
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:33 pm
@Baldimo,
The last law in which an immigration bill was passed. There is nothing anywhere where it says a president can only pass an EO right after a law in connection to it was passed. It is a false argument you are pushing.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:36 pm
@revelette2,
Which one was that Rev? As I have noted Reagan did an EO due to some things that were over looked with his Immigration law.

Which immigration bill is Obama amending with his EO?
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:38 pm
@Baldimo,
No, you are wrong. Reagan wrote an OE right after the fix to said immigration failed to pass. He by passed congress and wrote a fix into it despite their objection to it. Obama is not amending a bill, that is the not the president's job, nor did Reagan amend a bill. He wrote an EO for guidelines on enforcing the present immigration bill. If congress don't like it, they can pass a bill which will nullify his EO.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:45 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Heave a read Frank:
[url]http://www.freerepublic.com


that's an easy one

freepers make moderates heave
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:51 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Thank you confirming that you can't defend what Obama has done with his EO. I figured that you wouldn't be able to, even when provided with proof of how wrong you were. How can you relate what Obama did to actions taken by Reagan? What recent law on immigration did Obama amend with his EO?

Head in the sand Frank. That's what I like about you.


I'll tell you what he did with his EO, Baldimo...which is the same thing every other president has done.

He exercised it.

That is what Reagan did also...several times.

What is so difficult about that...that caused you to think I was avoiding it?

If he exercised it incorrectly, there are ways to remedy that.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 02:56 pm
@revelette2,
Got any links to this claim?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 03:13 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If he exercised it incorrectly, there are ways to remedy that.


Could you teach me the backstroke?
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 04:52 pm
@Baldimo,
What claim? I left a link earlier in which you have already referred to.

GOP Lie Debunked: Every President Since Eisenhower Used Executive Authority On Immigration

Quote:
The legislation, the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) granted up to 3 million undocumented immigrants a path to citizenship if they had lived in America “continuously” since 1982, or four years; nearly identical to President Obama’s proposal for comprehensive immigration reform Ted Cruz will not let House Republicans debate or vote on.

There was a problem with the new immigration law that bothered Reagan’s conscience because it did not include spouses and children of the 3 million immigrants the law affected. At the time, the Senate Judiciary Committee said that the “families of legalized aliens would be required to “wait in line.” This abomination of “split-eligibility families” also wore on the consciences of the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) that drove them to condemn the separation of families that conflicted with Reagan’s so-called “pro-family” bona fides.

A year later some members of Congress offered up a legislative fix to include the now-legal immigrants’ family members in the IRCA, but it failed. So when Congress failed to do the humane thing and keep immigrant families intact, Ronald Reagan took it upon himself and changed the policy under executive authority, and “prosecutorial discretion” to extend the protections against deportations.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 05:22 pm
@Baldimo,
It's attached to several:

1. The US Constitution which is the supreme law of the land. The 14th amendment.
2. The 1990 immigration act which gives preference to persons who have family members working in the US.
3.HR 3547 which set funding for the detentions and deportation but only included enough money to deport about 400,000 per year. It's estimated there are over 11 million undocumented aliens in the US.
4. HJ Res 124 which set Border Patrol at current levels.

Since Congress has not provided enough money to deport all illegal aliens then it is up the the President to decide which to deport. It is hardly out of left field to decide that certain people are not a priority when it comes to deportation. Would you rather we not focus on using the limited funds to deport criminals?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 07:02 pm
@parados,
As it has been proven often, Baldimo is not too bright concerning US history.
He makes himself to be an easy target for many people who knows much more about US past history. That he doesn't know or don't know how to search for facts on any Search engine shows he's incapable of learning the truth about anything, and lives on FAUX SNOOZE information.
TNCFS
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 07:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I thought it was important enough to provide a summary of the 14th Amendment to our Constitution.
Quote:
Key Clauses of the 14th Amendment
Four principles were asserted in the text of the 14th amendment. They were:
State and federal citizenship for all persons regardless of race both born or naturalized in the United States was reaffirmed.
No state would be allowed to abridge the "privileges and immunities" of citizens.
No person was allowed to be deprived of life, liberty,or property without "due process of law."
No person could be denied "equal protection of the laws."
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/07/2024 at 09:46:49