Define Intelligence

It's obvious by Hex's response he is missing what you are saying. You only have 2 choices in the matter. 1) You can take the time to explain to him (in small bites) but if you do, your willingness to take on the project excludes the possibility of expressing frustration because your frustration will get in the way of satisfactorily completing the project or 2) click on the "Ignore User" button on his profile page.

HH wrote: "What you basicly mean with your message is that "nature will overcome and adapt", but the way you put it is wrong, misleading and poorly argumented."

Please read this first: Google: " wikipedia intelligent design". So this idea is not that silly, it is not scientific though. Remember the thread: "Define Intelligence". The aim of my the message is to bring about discussion on the issue that intelligence exist elsewhere than in brains. I don't know where you got this idea" Nature will overcome and adapt", there is nothing to prove or disprove this, its out of our scope, not my idea.

Dasein wrote: "It's obvious by Hex's response he is missing what you are saying. You only have 2 choices in the matter. 1) You can take the time to explain to him (in small bites) but if you do, your willingness to take on the project excludes the possibility of expressing frustration because your frustration will get in the way of satisfactorily completing the project or 2) click on the "Ignore User" button on his profile page."

Thanks!

If I understand your "Intelligent Design" from this Wiki site, it's about neo-creationism, I put it along side "Spontanious Genesis", but thanks for your input.

Darwinistic theory has time and time again proved that evolution will in the long run make it's creatures overcomes problem and adapt to it's enviroment.

Look at how fish will adap to it's enviroment, either they grow large or short depending on enviroment. How te beak of bird has various shape and sizes depending on food source.

Intelligent Design was utterly debunked and proved as religion in disguise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District

1 factor of the intellect is

Pattern recognition and the exploitation of such patterns

I like your answer. Pattern recognition does seem to be a good description of intelligence.

"Pattern recognition" includes perception of relationships?

Subject: perception of relationships..

Relationships imply plurality to me. Or in a stricter sense, dual or more objects or subjects that exist with in the sphere of causes and conditions

Do you mean social relationships?

intstead a relationship between two objects or a subject and a object

or are you talking of morals?

very well

I guess. We certainly follow patterns in our mapping of all relationships we perceive.

But now I am wondering where the 'intelligence' comes in. Is it in the pattern, or in the recognition of the pattern? I tend to think of intelligence as depth or richness of perception.

Yes, your word "depth" might need a little exploration. Many animals could be said to recognize pattern. I suggest that degrees of intelligence involve the ability to restructure pattern. It may be that human language plays a significant part in that... a factor suggested perhaps by Chomsky's idea of competing "deep structures" to explain the ambiguity of (surface) sentences such as:
"Visiting relatives can be boring".

By "relationships" I refer mainly to "connections." I also see that what I mean by "inntelligence" is only loosely synonymous with "wisdom." The concept of "depth" is more characteristic of the latter and "complexity" of the former.

I know these are mere semantical manipulations but let me add "acuity" to my notion of intelligence and "breadth" to my notion of wisdom. Perhaps they will stimulate further discussion and distinctions.

Say a cat and a human looks at a newspaper. There is presumably more depth to human perception, and though the senses of both creatures are exposed to the same information, it is perceived in much greater detail by the human. Presumably. For all we know, cats may have some awareness we are oblivious to.

I agree that many animals could be said to recognize pattern. I also think some are able to restructure pattern too, though perhaps not to the extent human language allows. Lions making an ambush on their prey, for instance, or crows dropping pebbles in water to reach a treat. They perceive relations and how to manipulate them to their advantage.

Intelligence is the evolution of ignorance for us, as light is the evolution of darkness in the Universe.

I can buy that. Just as glass with a small amount of water has the "evolutionary potential" of containing more water, while a glass completely full has no evolutionary potential in that sense.

Indeed, especially my cats.

JL, this applies to the "We know nothing." adage. When we think we know, we have no room to know more; when we know we don't know as much as we think, we can know more than what we think we know.

You seem to be catching onto my words. You have potential, friend.

evolutionary potential?