Fist fights as foreplay?

Oof.

Definitely disturbing...

I've known a few folks with organic brain damage; the serious cases had trouble with knowing where the boundaries were.

Some tried rather insistently to press gifts on others, some were just too open about their personal lives, they were all too trusting of people.

Kinda childlike in some ways, now that I have kids and can compare some of the behaviors.

The brain damage thing, that puts an entirely different twist on this whole thing.

So, she wasn't like this before, huh?

Was she with this same guy before her accident?

Seems as though he is taking advantage of her. She might act out unexpectedly because of her brain injury, but I would think that would be something that wouldn't be encouraged.

There might be a good chance, for instance, she never would have tackled someone in the park if she wasn't used to getting physical at home.

I'm not seeing this really as a rough sex thing, but more of the man allowing this to go on, because he likes it and can get away with this.

I'd seriously consider getting adult protective services involved.

If the woman is allowing herself to get hit because of her brain damage, she's being his victim. Her hitting back isn't a normal goal for someone who's injured their brain.

I'm thinking on the responses so I will be back but I did want to clear up that the brain injury happened when she was a teenager -- about 20 years ago.

Yeah, I just came back to say something similar... the incident in the park makes it sound like perhaps it is about poor impulse control rather than something she enjoys, per se. She's provoked minimally, she lashes out, and then she feels bad about it (crying under the tree). Maybe when this plays out with her husband the feeling guilty about it part is an element of the overall excitement (make-up sex, as someone said earlier), but that all things being equal the fist-fighting per se is not something she enjoys.

From what boomer has said about her before (I'm assuming it's the same person, I'm not sure), it sounds like she functions pretty normally overall. Not like someone with general cognitive problems, just normal-with-gaps.

Adult protective services makes me nervous, at least with what little info we have at this point.

I'm a bit dubious about this.

Some people become gentle as lambs after a brain injury. Others have tremendous problems with out-of-control emotions and impulse control.

It's highly dependent on which part or parts of her brain were injured, and how much her brain is able to recover.


I hope she's had cognitive therapy. They can rebuild/reroute some of the neural pathways.

oof, my thoughts on what you might do, boomer, is simply to give her a chance to tell you what happened.

The boy was traumatized, the mother is concerned -- what are THEY planning on doing about it? This seems like one of those situations where it would be easy to take their monkeys off their backs and discuss it with your friend on their behalf, but I would resist doing that for them.

I think I'd let each of them talk to me about the episode, but I'd try to stay out of the middle of it.

I had a cousin. I'll call her Sheila. Sheila was "slow". I don't think she ever graduated from grammer school. But we were taught to always treat her just like any of the other girls when we were all younger, playing cards, learning all of the new dances, talking about boys. Most times she understood our conversations but sometimes you'd look at her and it was clear that she was lost.

Anyway, Sheila never married but she had two kids. She lived in a somewhat small city, never worked, received disability. She was surrounded by a large family and pretty well taken care of and looked after. The only thing was, she would pick up men that she hardly knew and bring them to her house. Drunks, drug addicts, whatever. The woman had a hearty sexual appetite and no matter how much her parents or her siblings got on her about doing this, stressing to her how dangerous it was, she continued to do it.

You can guess what happened. She was found in a coma, in bed. The doctors believe that she had been smothered with a pillow and left for dead by one of these men. Her children, now adults, lived with her but were so accustomed to their mothers' behavior, they didn't know any of the men she hung out with but there had been a man in her room the night before she was found.

She never came out of the coma and eventually, she died. It's been about five years now.

This has nothing to do with the original question, I know. But later posts jarred the memory.

Yes, soz, it's the same girl. I just wanted to change things around to leave other aspects out of it.

Overall she is just a normal person -- not agressive or violent. Our friendship is very casual so I've never had her angry with me. Knowing what I know I don't want to make her mad -- she could whip my ass.

I don't think Laura intends to do anything about it and I understand her hesitation.

Knowing which kettle the fish are in is the complicated part.

<sigh>

I guess it is the fact Laura's kid saw only him hitting her is what gives me the heebie-jeebies. Knowing the two of them I would have the same reaction if it was just her hitting him. If the two of them had been duking it out I would have assumed that they were just horney.

sorry to hear about your cousin eoe.

What also bothers me about booms friend is the on/off impulse control, jumping the lady in the park.

What if that was a child, or older person?

I guess I'm not seeing the problem with calling Adult Protective Services. It can be done anonymously, and who knows what it might uncover.

perhaps the husband is being abusive, perhaps the woman needs therapy.

If nothing is found at this time to be needed, both of these people will be alerted to the fact that others notice their violent behavior and might put the lid on brawls on the front lawn.

I called APS regarding a lovely elderly woman who walked around our neighborhood. Had alzheimers but knew her way around (at that time) The elderly are so delicate, I saw her one day with one side of her face entirely covered with a red, angry bruise.

"Miz Spooner! What happened to your face?!!"

"ah....it's just a touch of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, nothing to be worried about honey"

I wasn't concerned with abuse so much as her falling. I knew she was married, but he was quite elderly too. I fought with myself about whether to make the call, wondering if it might cause problems for both of them.

Then, I remember 2 little children who lived in the duplex in front of me in Florida. A day never went by where I didn't hear screaming and name calling, really horrible things yelled at the children.

I was afraid to "get involved" and never made the call. I have been kicking myself over my cowardice ever since.

So...I called APS to see if anything was wrong at the Spooner household. I don't regret I made the call.

I guess that's all I have to say about that.

I've seen both sides of it. There is just such a wide variety of skill levels and awareness in these kinds of organizations, and they range from way too overzealous to way too laissez-faire. It especially makes me nervous that this is about sex. It still sounds like it really could be entirely fine with her, and if so that's her prerogative (so long as it remains behind closed doors).

I agree with boomer that the trick is figuring out which kettle the situation belongs in.

Does anything need to be done short-term, boomer? Is Laura asking you to intervene? I tend to agree with JPB that it's a good idea to stay out of the middle if you can help it.

Unless you're worried about Mo happening across such a scene -- then it's about you, not Laura.


If you feel like you want to do something, perhaps you can call APS anonymously and just explain the situation and get their feedback. They may have insight, they may give you an outline of what they'd do, they may have resources that you can provide to her, that kind of thing. Not that you'd do anything with that information necessarily, but it may be an outlet for feeling a need to do something, if you have that feeling.

I jusy find it difficult to imagine a woman getting all hot and wet by some guy pounding his fist into her face. The paramedics come and she's laying there in a broken heap with a big smile on her face. It just don't add up!!!

Yesterday I just didn't feel up to this thread.

There are lots of things that mutually consenting adults do in public that are illegal.

The Child Observer has every right to be confused and his mother has every right to be annoyed. All the same, this isn't a case for the police, but an opportunity for a mother/son discussion about Peculiarities of the Human Race.

Even though I started it I don't really feel up to this thread.

I've known girls whose - ahem - lovers - ahem - hit them. You could tell they'd been hit. There were bruises and such.

This girl isn't ever bruised.

I know there is this whole other world out there with safe words and other rules that I don't understand. It doesn't add up to most of us. For her, I think it adds up.

I haven't seen her since this incident. Perhaps I'll stop by to say hello and take it from there.

I worry about the situation in the park (well, among other things).

But I have no bright ideas on what to do.

I have got to say first off that I have never, and prolly will never try it. But, I know that my sister and her bf, and my best friend and her bf do those things.. My best friend isn't nearly as 'fist fighting' as my sister, but she likes to be, lets say slapped, in the face? I dont know, that's what she says.. But, on Mothers Day my family had a BBQ and my sister and came and had tons of makeup on hiding bruises, that were still apparent, on her face.. plus bruises on her arms!! I took her off into private immediatedly and asked her what had happend, and she got embarrased and didn't want to talk about it... I thought the worst, her bf beat her... boy I was wrong... well I was right, but wrong... I later discussed with our mutual friend my concern and she told me that my sister and her bf enjoyed hitting each other, even full fledged punching, for foreplay.... my sister later talked to me about it and I mentioned it to my best friend, and that's why she told me that she liked that sort of thing also!! It just really shocks me I guess... I really dont like being punched in the face... especially by a man... don't think I'd get turned on by it!! Just my input though!

We have only done it once, but one night my girlfriend and I pretended that I was a burglar breaking into her house. To my surprise, my girlfriend was so fast that I could not touch her while she kicked and punched me until her uppercut knocked me on my back. Without hesitation she mounted me and used me. Remarkable night.