When to use s'?

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Dear English people:
When do you use the s' compred to 's?
Thanks for any kind of help Laughing

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Hi 143 and welcome to a2k. You use s' when you are making a possessive of a plural.

The Smiths are coming to the party. The Smiths' dog will stay at home.

The Smiths have two daughters. Some of their daughters' toys belong to both sisters. Some belong to one sister and some to the other. When the sisters' friends come to the house to play, they don't know which toy belongs to which sister. The older sister's friend said, "Let's play with the doll that talks." The older sister said, "That's my sister's doll."

I hope this helps.

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BTW, I am 100% in agreement with Roberta on this but this is a hotly debated rule. Some of the self-declared experts disagree.

But listen to Boita the others are daft.

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Hiya Craven, Thanks for the support. I'm stunned that there's disagreement on this. What could there be to disagree about? I guess I'm leading a sheltered life, Englishly speaking, that is.

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(Hi, 143 MB, welcome to A2k - please be warned that EVERY apostrophe in the following post is WRONG!)

Oh goddess! This is way off topic, but, at least in Oz, apostrophe's are appearing in place's like the ones I have just put them in!

They are also appearing constantly in places like the possessive it's!!

The notion of people still being able to manage the plural possessive apostrophe is an ever-fading mirage.

I KNOW the language is alway's evolving, but I jus't cannot bear it!

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thanks, that really helped!
Razz

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I'm glad I helped, 143. I'd be glad to help you with any other questions you might have.

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Roberta, my American highschool English textbook adds a few caveats (that I often forget).
Here's what it says regarding this..

Quote:

To form the possessive case of a singular noun, first write the singular spelling of the word. Then add an apostrophe and s. ('s)

woman's shoe
cat's paw
Muir's answer
Burns's poems
Richards's novel

> Exception. The following may be correctly written by adding the apostrophe only: (1) ancient proper names ending in -es, (2) the name Jesus, (3) such expressions as for conscience' sake.

Socrates' pupil
Jesus' birth
Pericles' role
Moses' rod
for righteousness' sake
for goodness' sake
for conscience' sake

To form the possessive case of a plural noun that does not end in s, first write the plural spelling of the word. Then add an apostrophe and s. ('s)

children's books
policemen's protection

To form the possessive case of a plural noun that ends in s, first write the plural spelling of the word. Then add an apostrophe. (')

boy's socks
lions' den
Williamses' house

I was looking through the grammer section of a big English dictionary the other day (maybe it was Oxford's...not sure) & it said the same as above.

I frequently read magazines that use the rules listed above (as in "see pictures of Richards's new baby!" -- apostrophe plus s). Note that that usage is singular. It is referring to a man named Richards, not Richard. If it were "See pictures of the Richards' new baby!", that would be referring to the Richards (as in a family with the family name "Richard"), so that would be plural and only gets an apostrophe (no 2nd s).

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Monger, I have no opinion about the classical names, but I disagree with your statement about names ending in s. Your example shows Williamses as the plural and Williamses' as the plural possessive. The same rule applies to the name Richards. Richardses is the plural and Richardses' is the plural possessive.

I have also seen plural possessives treated as Richards', but I think this approach is less clear and less preferable than Richardses'.

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Roberta wrote:

I disagree with your statement about names ending in s. Your example shows Williamses as the plural and Williamses' as the plural possessive. The same rule applies to the name Richards. Richardses is the plural and Richardses' is the plural possessive.

True, but that still leaves room for "Richards's" as the singular possessive.

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Absolutely. Richards's is singular. Awkward and a bit strange, but singular.

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143MB, WELCOME to A2K. As far as I'm concerned, Roberta is our resident expert on English grammar. Wink

c.i.

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dlowan, it ain't just Aussies. You should see some of the outrageous misues of the beloved ' that I've seen, particularly as regards the third person singular neuter pronoun. It would turn your hair as grey as mine.

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Thanks for the kind words, c.i.

I remember way back when I stumbled into abuzz. I was delighted. Thrilled. I remember telling a friend that I found a site where people use apostrophes. How civilized. The same is true here.

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When to use s'?

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